Non-Erasable Ink

[SFCharlie]

Hello,

 

I used to have another account here, but alas I forgot what it was. I have been keeping a journal since I was eight years old. I write with a MB Meisterstück and their Irish Green ink. I'm however concerned that this ink will eventually disappear. You often see that certain fountain pen inks fade away over time. The Irish Green ink is water based, as far as I am aware and my journals, like those of my ancestors, I wish to pass on to future generations.

 

In that light; I was wondering if you guys have any idea whether there is an ink(brand) available that will keep up with time, or that the Irish Green ink from MB will just suffice?

 

My journals look like this, so it's very important that the contents remain in pristine condition.

 

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy318/SFCharlie/019oltmans1-groot.jpg

 

Thanks.

Edited March 16, 2013 by SFCharlie

[mirosc]

Iron Gall inks are fine for that and have been used for exactly that purpose since the middle ages. They have longevity so that the bigger problem is to find the right (archival) paper.

 

Unfortunately I can't comment on Irish Green, I don't have that. If you want an IG ink from Montblanc there's the Midnight Blue ink (but not the best IG in my opinion), but there are many other manufacturers out there, especially Pelikan's great BlueBlack, some from Rohrer and Klingner, even Diamine or ESSRI (my favorite).

Remember to take a bit more care of the pen with IG inks - there's a lot of information here on FPN

Edited March 16, 2013 by mirosc

[SFCharlie]

Thanks for the information thus far. I'm keen to green inks, so that colour would be preferable. So what ink-manufacturers sell iron gall inks?

[mirosc]

  On 3/16/2013 at 9:00 PM, SFCharlie said:

Thanks for the information thus far. I'm keen to green inks, so that colour would be preferable. So what ink-manufacturers sell iron gall inks?

For IG inks like written above:

MB Midnight Blue

Pelikan 4001 BlueBlack

Lamy BlueBlack

Diamine Registrar's

R&K Scabiosa

R&K Salix

ESSRI

 

all don't have a green tone,

if you want a green ink, look for Noodler's:

Bad Green Gator

Hunter

Polar Green

They are not IG inks, but "eternal" nonetheless.

[SFCharlie]

For the sake of permanence, I decided to go for the Rohrer & Klingner Salix ink. Unfortunately it's blue, but one can't have everything. I probably will like the blue shade though!

Edited March 16, 2013 by SFCharlie

[Octo]

I use Texas Live Oak, a waterproof green by Noodler's. It's available only from Dromgoole's in Texas and in 1 oz. bottles. Texas Live Oak is a nice green, the color of the tree leaves.

 

I like it a lot and use it in a Cross Solo F nib pen, equivalent to a typical XF. Some say it is wet in a broader nib, but I've had no problems at all.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/202044-noodlers-texas-live-oak-green/

 

I do not know whether it is totally bulletproof, but if you contact Dromgoole's, you can ask.

[PhatMan]

SFCharlie,

 

I really like the Sailor 'nano' inks - Kiwa Guro (Black) and Sei Boku (blue-black, though it is more like blue to me!).

 

Have fun !

 

Best regards

 

Russ

[Ondina]

Pharmacist, a member here, makes high quality ferrogalic inks in diverse colors. He is Benelux based, if you contact him he will quite probably provide you an Iron Gall ink in green. Keeping a log since 8 years old is something impressive, congratulations.

[SFCharlie]

Thank you for the kind replies, fella's. Now that the ink-problem is solved, I'm a bit worried about the durability of paper as well. I have used standard A5 paper for years. Perhaps using something like Clairefontaine 2800 A5 paper is a better idea?

[Ondina]

Depending on where you're based and brand availability, Miquel Ríus and Dohe make notebooks in certified registrar's paper. http://www.milgrapas.es/libro-actas-50-hojas-miquel-rius-733.html?utm_source=shopmania&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=direct_link

http://www.milgrapas.es/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/c/actas_1_1.jpg

 

http://www.dohe.es/libro-actas-folio-natural-50-hojas.html

http://www.dohe.es/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/250x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/0/9/09921_2.jpg

 

That's the type notars/registrars use.

 

Exacompta sells cahiers de registre, but they are not certified AFAIK. http://www.fournituresbureautiques.com/produits/Exacompta/1172400/Registre_29_7x21_5x5_foliote_200p..html

Miquel Ríus, Clairefontaine, and some other brands offer a certifies minimum of 100 years in all their paper line even if it's not formally registrar's quality. Costs are much more reasonable than the norme ISO 9706-1999 ones.

 

[Ondina]

I would like to add that there is 100% cotton/linen paper pH neutral, chemical agents free in loose leaf in several produced in several countries that can be an alternative to notebooks (and can be used to make your own). Crane's cotton rag comes to mind in the North America, http://www.neenahpaper.com/FinePaper/CRANEPapers, or Arpa Papel in Europe http://www.arpapel.com/, Crown Mill http://www.originalcrownmill.be/, Amalfi, Fabriano, Eskulan, http://eskulan.com/papel-eskulan/.....

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

In my own practice, I've not pursued document permanence with much vigour, choosing I-G inks paired with cotton rag paper as an acceptable fit-for-purpose solution using over-the-counter / mouse-click items.

 

I would avoid papers with optical brightening agents, and those using clay instead of chalk in the coating / sizing.

 

As mentioned by Member Ondina, one standard for permanence in paper is set-out in ISO 9706, so it may be worthwhile to use that as a criteria when choosing paper, but may be OTT for cost:performance.

 

A while ago this Topic was posted regarding pairing of paper with I-G inks: LINK

 

There has been much to & fro on the 'permanence' of FP ink. In part that is due to the fact that there are no standard/recognised tests nor methods to interpret results of any [made-up / improvised] tests. Arrival of new ink varieties, (such as the nano particle inks and Noodler's ingenious cellulose-reactive 'bulletproof' inks), has added considerable scope to the matter of permanence well beyond that of traditional aniline dye inks. Hence my preference for time-tested I-G ink.

 

Bye,

S1

 

___ ___

Off-Topic: Please also ensure that the folio / packaging of the journal sheets is also archival - archival paper & ink can easily be compromised by non-archival envelopes, cardstock, plastics, metals, adhesives, inclusions such as photos, etc.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Sandy1

[reval]

As long as your journals are stored properly, I wouldn't worry too much about the degradation of inks. As long as they not subjected to light and excess humidity, most inks (except washable) are quite stable. When I look at what I wrote as a kid, about 30 years ago, on cheap paper and with cheap fp ink, there is hardly any decay.

[SFCharlie]

Thanks for the info. As you can see, the picture in my first post, my journals are not in notebooks.

 

For paper I prefer to write on unruled paper.

Edited March 17, 2013 by SFCharlie

[SFCharlie]

  On 3/17/2013 at 11:18 AM, Ondina said:

I would like to add that there is 100% cotton/linen paper pH neutral, chemical agents free in loose leaf in several produced in several countries that can be an alternative to notebooks (and can be used to make your own). Crane's cotton rag comes to mind in the North America, http://www.neenahpaper.com/FinePaper/CRANEPapers, or Arpa Papel in Europe http://www.arpapel.com/, Crown Mill http://www.originalcrownmill.be/, Amalfi, Fabriano, Eskulan, http://eskulan.com/papel-eskulan/.....

 

Thanks. I don't want to spend a fortune on paper either, but what I noticed is that with Clairefontaine, the paper is typically a lot more fine and soft than your standard LaserJet printing paper. Hence I was wondering whether or not Clairefontaine paper is the way to go for writing purposes...

Edited March 17, 2013 by SFCharlie

[Squeteague]

Noodler's bulletproof inks are quite...bulletproof.

They're pH neutral, UV and water resistant so I think they'll hold up quite nicely.

[Ondina]

Duplicated post, sorry.

 

Editing to add that companies have the annoying habit of -to many of us- randomly and capriciously changing products that are just perfect, let it be Galgo Parchemín, Quo Vadis 90g, Crane's Monarch, Penman Sapphire, Lamy B-B or MN Racing Green. So whenever you happen to find something that suits your purpose, consider stocking up.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Ondina

[Ondina]

  On 3/17/2013 at 12:53 PM, SFCharlie said:

  On 3/17/2013 at 11:18 AM, Ondina said:

I would like to add that there is 100% cotton/linen paper pH neutral, chemical agents free in loose leaf in several produced in several countries that can be an alternative to notebooks (and can be used to make your own). Crane's cotton rag comes to mind in the North America, http://www.neenahpap...per/CRANEPapers, or Arpa Papel in Europe http://www.arpapel.com/, Crown Mill http://www.originalcrownmill.be/, Amalfi, Fabriano, Eskulan, http://eskulan.com/papel-eskulan/.....

 

Thanks. I don't want to spend a fortune on paper either, but what I noticed is that with Clairefontaine, the paper is typically a lot more fine and soft than your standard LaserJet printing paper. Hence I was wondering whether or not Clairefontaine paper is the way to go for writing purposes...

 

The school notebooks typically marketed for school are velouté 90g, http://clairefontaine-rhodia-2013.e-catalogues.info/

Miquel Ríus has higher grammages if you prefer; 102g, 120g...( or lower, from 70g/m2). Blanc paper as well; http://www.papeleriaofimat.com/product.php?id_product=870 A word of warning, the soft cover notebooks have a 70g paper that is not the regular one and is not fpen friendly. Miquelrius Cartoné liso (blank paper) has the regular nice one.

They now offers custom orders in the your notebooks in which some features can be customized for the client. http://www.personalizatucuaderno.com/

Personally I do not enjoyslick egg-shell coated papers like Clairefontaine, Oxford..etc make and much prefer the classic feeling, fast ink absorption and shading of the Miquelríus. There are other makers such as Quo Vadis, Rhodia, etc. that make wonderful notebooks if registry paper is not a must. Rhodia, Clairefontaine and Miquelríus make loose leaf blank A4 paper. If you allow me an observation, ring binders or paper are better preserved inside cardboard boxes. Make sure the pen/ink/paper combo works well and you like both writing and the final result.

My advice would be to get one of each before committing, as the task has personal relevance to you and yours. Try, test them with the ink of choice, and decide if the combination is pleasant, lasting and economically viable considering availability, price and specs. That's a wonderful goal, best of luck with it.

[SFCharlie]

Thanks for the heads up. I just require blank quality A5 paper. So your normal Clairefontaine 80g printing paper will suffice for journalwriting or should one look for paper with a higher grammage?

[tonybelding]

A bit late perhaps, but let me chime in with what I know about green inks...

 

Water resistance and archival quality are two different things. There are waterproof inks that will fade with age and UV exposure (such as Baystate Blue) and there are archival inks that will last forever unless they get wet (most of the regular Noodler's inks, such as Noodler's Blue).

 

MB Irish Green is a good ink that might have a little bit of waterproof component. I'd have to test it again to make sure... Usually the darker inks will have better water resistance, and Irish Green is on the lighter-and-brighter side.

 

Noodler's Texas Live Oak is a waterproof and "bulletproof" ink that should last forever, and it's an attractive shade of dark "forest green". However, I found it extremely wet and prone to bleeding and feathering. Plus, it's a Dromgoole's exclusive ink, and the availability is uncertain.

 

I also really liked Mont Blanc Jonathan Swift Seaweed Green. It's a sort of olive drab color with excellent writing characteristics, and definitely has some water resistance. If it gets wet then part of the dye will wash out and make a mess, but a legible stain persists. (The waterproof stain it leaves behind looks like iron gall to me, though that's only a guess.) Unfortunately, Jonathan Swift was also a limited edition ink. It's my favorite green.

 

Herbin Verte Empire is another dark-and-drab green that I think has a bit of water-resistant stuff in it. I don't like it as much as Jonathan Swift, but Verte Empire is part of the regular Herbin line and is readily available.

 

De Atramentis Green Apple Baked Apple is another favorite of mine, darker than Irish Green but not nearly as dark as Live Oak or nearly as drab as Jonathan Swift or Verte Empire. It also appears to have some water-resistant stuff in it, in my tests. It also has a pleasant apple scent when writing.

Edited March 17, 2013 by tonybelding