Danitrio flexy XF and Flexy Fine nibs

January 1, 2006

I'm thinking about buying a Danitrio with a flexy nib and wondered if anyone has any experience comparing the flexy XF to the flexy Fine. Is there much difference in the smoothness between the two? Any other experience would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Dave

January 1, 2006

First, you need to understand that these are not flex nibs in the classical sense. They are very springy, it is true, and any nib will give some degree of line variation when you press on it; but the Dani Trio nibs are really only semiflex at best. (I've handled several of them, and I have what I think is a good sense of what a flex nib should be like.)

That said, there is a slight but noticeable difference in smoothness; but it's not anything unique to Dani Trio. An XF nib will always feel less smooth than an F nib from the same maker, assuming that both are tuned optimally, because the XF nib's smaller radii will allow the XF to "plow up" the paper's surface roughness more readily. It's like the difference between riding up over a curb with a BMX bike (20" wheels) and with a mountain bike (26" wheels).

January 1, 2006

I'm thinking about buying a Danitrio with a flexy nib and wondered if anyone has any experience comparing the flexy XF to the flexy Fine. Is there much difference in the smoothness between the two? Any other experience would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Dave

I too would be greatly interested in knowing that. I have seen some incredible copperplate handwriting done by a snailer with a Danitrio extrafine but have not asked how much less smooth an extrafine is.

Kurt H

January 1, 2006

First, you need to understand that these are not flex nibs in the classical sense. They are very springy, it is true, and any nib will give some degree of line variation when you press on it; but the Dani Trio nibs are really only semiflex at best. (I've handled several of them, and I have what I think is a good sense of what a flex nib should be like.)

That said, there is a slight but noticeable difference in smoothness; but it's not anything unique to Dani Trio. An XF nib will always feel less smooth than an F nib from the same maker, assuming that both are tuned optimally, because the XF nib's smaller radii will allow the XF to "plow up" the paper's surface roughness more readily. It's like the difference between riding up over a curb with a BMX bike (20" wheels) and with a mountain bike (26" wheels).

Hi Richard,

I think you need to get into contact with Kevin (winedoc) about this. As far as I understand, the Danitrio flex nibs are true flex nibs rather than just springy nibs, be it maybe not superflex. These are different from the standard DaniTrio nibs. Of course, I stand to be corrected...

Warm regards, Wim

Some pen videos · January 2, 2006

First, you need to understand that these are not flex nibs in the classical sense. They are very springy, it is true, and any nib will give some degree of line variation when you press on it; but the Dani Trio nibs are really only semiflex at best. (I've handled several of them, and I have what I think is a good sense of what a flex nib should be like.)
I think you need to get into contact with Kevin (winedoc) about this. As far as I understand, the Danitrio flex nibs are true flex nibs rather than just springy nibs, be it maybe not superflex. These are different from the standard DaniTrio nibs. Of course, I stand to be corrected...

Warm regards, Wim

Wim, Richard is correct. The flex of Danitrio corresponds to vintage semiflex. I have a fine nib in my hands and it gives 0.6mm under no pressure and 1.2mm at 250 gram-force (on my kitchen balance ).

In addition to the flex DaniTrio's nib has the proper unloading behavior (i.e. the flow is quickly reduced when the nib is unloaded) that adds to the results. In fact I have few vintage pens that altough they open wider they can not control the flow when pressure is released and the end result is not great. The result with the DaniTrio is aesthetically pleasant and perhaps the x-fine would have been even better.

AZ

PS> The extra contract that you saw in Kirk's posting comes from the fact that he grinded his nib into an italic. This means that the horizontal strokes appeared even thinner and the contrast was enhanced.

January 2, 2006

First, you need to understand that these are not flex nibs in the classical sense. They are very springy, it is true, and any nib will give some degree of line variation when you press on it; but the Dani Trio nibs are really only semiflex at best. (I've handled several of them, and I have what I think is a good sense of what a flex nib should be like.)
I think you need to get into contact with Kevin (winedoc) about this. As far as I understand, the Danitrio flex nibs are true flex nibs rather than just springy nibs, be it maybe not superflex. These are different from the standard DaniTrio nibs. Of course, I stand to be corrected...

Warm regards, Wim

Wim, Richard is correct. The flex of Danitrio corresponds to vintage semiflex. I have a fine nib in my hands and it gives 0.6mm under no pressure and 1.2mm at 250 gram-force (on my kitchen balance ).

In addition to the flex DaniTrio's nib has the proper unloading behavior (i.e. the flow is quickly reduced when the nib is unloaded) that adds to the results. In fact I have few vintage pens that altough they open wider they can not control the flow when pressure is released and the end result is not great. The result with the DaniTrio is aesthetically pleasant and perhaps the x-fine would have been even better.

AZ

PS> The extra contract that you saw in Kirk's posting comes from the fact that he grinded his nib into an italic. This means that the horizontal strokes appeared even thinner and the contrast was enhanced.

Hi Antonios,

I am just wondering now, and getting confused. You are saying that these nibs are semi-flex, and behave like proper semi-flex nibs if I understand well. Maybe I see it too simplistically, but to me semi-flex is flex, be it less than super or "normal" flex, whatever that may be.

Now, Richard states that these are springy nibs and not classical flex nibs, and you also say he is right. This is the opposite of what you stated before, I think.

So, I am getting very confused. Are these nibs flex nibs, be it semi-flex, or springy nibs?

And while you're at it, could you maybe give a scale of flexiness? Like so much to so much is semi-flex, so much to so much is flex, etc., or if it is a factor that is involved, maybe provide us with a factor of flexed vs unflexed lines.

TIA, warm regards, Wim

Some pen videos · January 2, 2006

Wim,

The concept of flex and an objective definition of flex has three inherent difficulties:

1) The difficulty in a scientifically objective definition. Is it the maximum opening? Is it the maximum opening that will not lead to a "quick" fatigue crack? Is it the maximum opening divided by force? Although the latter appears to be a good objective definition, the quality of writing is the ultimate judgement. The visual effect of writing with a flex nib actually relies much more on the ratio of thin-thick contrast than the maximum opening (see some of my previous postings on the Waterman artist's nib, the Waterman pink nib and a modern Pilot). A medium nib needs to reach much larger opening in order to create the same effect than a pen that is XF under no pressure. The size of the letters plays a role. An XF semiflex nib can create much better result than a medium wet noddle if the size of the letters is small. On the contrary if the size of the letter is large then the maximum opening needs to "scale-up" appropriately to emphasize the effect.

2) The difficulty of comparing definitions among the users due to dextrity and physical strength of the user. The range of forces that are comfortably applied by the user on a pen varies a lot. Not only does the maximum force varies but also the minimum possible force is not the same. Some people are able to control the pen so that it "just" produces the finest possible line by even lifting it sligtly from the paper or going very fast. Also there is no doubt that "flex" muscles develop and get trained. With the right combination of ink/paper and a wide range of comfortable writing forces one can get "flex" results from a wider variety of nibs. For example I can get visible line variation from a Sonnet (see below) but I would never call the Sonnet nib semiflex.

http://www.streamload.com/azavalia/sonnetflex1.jpg

Pen: Parker Sonnet XF, Ink: Penman Sapphire, Paper: Clairefontaine.

3) The difficulty of comparing definitions among the users due to the nibs tried before. This is true because the "characterization" flex or semiflex or soft etc. depends on the personal experience of the writer. If someone has tried the spectrum of vintage nibs, it would be very difficult to give the characterization of more than "semiflex" to Dani Trio. In other words the characterization semiflex/flex etc. is relative with respect to the experience of the person that handles the nib.

So I hope that you understand the difficulty and you can appreciate the variation of opinions. By the way I started writing the answer by hand but the ability to correct on the computer is indeed powerful

http://www.streamload.com/azavalia/sample_small.jpg

larger version

Edited January 2, 2006 by antoniosz