The quill pen

[Lozzic]

Hello,

 

For a year now I have had an empty Quink bottle standing on my desk with 5 quills in it I purchased from John Neal bookseller. The quills seem to be well cut but I found their sharp points splattered ink; this fact combined with my lack of confidence in cutting a quill meant that they have sat there pretty much unused since I bought them. Only recently have I started to read up more on cutting quills and have read Edward Johnston's account of it. So I got out my X-Acto knife and made several attempts at reshaping one of these quills to a chisel point. After some time experimenting I managed to come to what seemed to be a serviceable nib that looked quite good. What I then did was load the pen with Ziller soot black ink from underneath and try to write with it... it created a thick line of ink that meant any letter I tried to form was awful :bonk:

Seeing that this was not going as planned I decided to experiment with ink consistencies by having one standard sample out of the bottle, one diluted and one evaporated... that made no difference. I went on to use Roberson's penman ink, Pelikan black, Iron Gall and some Italian La Kaligrafica ink and there was no change, still that thick horrible line. Has anyone else experienced this? Are there any people on FPN who would consider themselves experts with the quill? What tips would you have for cutting and using a quill?

 

At the moment I fail to see how the scribes of the middle ages wrote such beautiful bibles, or how the writing masters of the 18th Century formed anything as delicate as Old English Text let alone Round Hand... :hmm1:

 

All information is much appreciated

 

thanks,

Lozzic

[Paddler]

I am no expert. I have, however, spent many hours cutting quills to different point shapes and trying them with different inks (I do historical reenactments).

 

One thing I have found is that you need to temper the quill shaft (called "Dutching"). One thing this process seems to do is relieve the stresses in the shaft. The stresses will cause the tines to splay out almost immediately after you form them (and certainly after they have been inked for a few minutes). Dutching also hardens the shaft, so the point doesn't wear out after you write a few lines.

 

Also, you will probably have trouble if you make the tines long and skinny like they are on a fountain pen nib. Short and stubby seems to work better and last longer.

 

When you make the slit, you first nick the front edge of the quill with a knife. The slit is made by splitting the quill shaft from the inside, starting at that nick. The last step in forming the point is cutting off that nicked place . . . all of it! Some directions don't tell you to do that. If you leave that nick on, you will get a thick line and lots of blobs and glebbers.

 

Paddler

 

[Titivillus]

Dutching is one secret that many quills are cut before doing. I will have to look but there is a website that has very nice pictures of the various steps in cutting. It's also good to have a pen knife with the special blade.

 

Kurt

[Lozzic]

  Paddler said:

I am no expert. I have, however, spent many hours cutting quills to different point shapes and trying them with different inks (I do historical reenactments).

 

One thing I have found is that you need to temper the quill shaft (called "Dutching"). One thing this process seems to do is relieve the stresses in the shaft. The stresses will cause the tines to splay out almost immediately after you form them (and certainly after they have been inked for a few minutes). Dutching also hardens the shaft, so the point doesn't wear out after you write a few lines.

 

Also, you will probably have trouble if you make the tines long and skinny like they are on a fountain pen nib. Short and stubby seems to work better and last longer.

 

When you make the slit, you first nick the front edge of the quill with a knife. The slit is made by splitting the quill shaft from the inside, starting at that nick. The last step in forming the point is cutting off that nicked place . . . all of it! Some directions don't tell you to do that. If you leave that nick on, you will get a thick line and lots of blobs and glebbers.

 

Paddler

 

At least three of these quills I have seem to have been "dutched" already but two of them seem much more flexible... I have broken one of the quills when splitting it but another one I seem to have almost got working. This quill that I have that seems to be OK still puts down a rather thick line. Is the trick to shave the bottom of the tip flat just in front of where the quill is curved up? Or should it be curved all along the edges right up to the tip? I seem to be finding a thin tip (height not width) to the nib behaves slightly better. It seems to be one of those things that takes a long time of trial and error to master...

 

 

  Titivillus said:

Dutching is one secret that many quills are cut before doing. I will have to look but there is a website that has very nice pictures of the various steps in cutting. It's also good to have a pen knife with the special blade.

 

Kurt

 

I have been thinking about getting a vintage quill knife but I am not very knowledgeable in that area. I know early quill knives were curved and sharpened on only one side but as for these later closable quill knives I don't know if they have blades like that.

 

I know that the Calligraphy and Lettering Arts Society sell quill knives but I don't know if they sell to non-members. You can see the CLAS quill knife here http://www.clas.co.uk/sales.html (no affiliation)

[Titivillus]

  Lozzic said:

I have been thinking about getting a vintage quill knife but I am not very knowledgeable in that area. I know early quill knives were curved and sharpened on only one side but as for these later closable quill knives I don't know if they have blades like that.

 

I know that the Calligraphy and Lettering Arts Society sell quill knives but I don't know if they sell to non-members. You can see the CLAS quill knife here http://www.clas.co.uk/sales.html (no affiliation)

 

I was given a modern reproduction of George Washington's pen knife that is a small folder that has the blade similar to the quill knife.\

 

here is a link to the steps in a pretty honest format

 

http://www.flick.com/~liralen/quills/quills.html

 

kurt

 

[Lozzic]

  Titivillus said:

I was given a modern reproduction of George Washington's pen knife that is a small folder that has the blade similar to the quill knife.\

 

here is a link to the steps in a pretty honest format

 

http://www.flick.com/~liralen/quills/quills.html

 

kurt

 

I have looked at some pics of that quill knife on Google, it looks good. Have you ever used it for quill cutting?

 

Thank you for the link that info will be very useful.

 

[Titivillus]

  Lozzic said:

  Titivillus said:

I was given a modern reproduction of George Washington's pen knife that is a small folder that has the blade similar to the quill knife.\

 

here is a link to the steps in a pretty honest format

 

http://www.flick.com/~liralen/quills/quills.html

 

kurt

 

I have looked at some pics of that quill knife on Google, it looks good. Have you ever used it for quill cutting?

 

Thank you for the link that info will be very useful.

 

I have used it and it seems to do the job. Nothing else will easily clean the inside of the quill. Another suggestion that I found somewhere was to put a little piece of metal inside the quill to act as a feed for the ink.

 

 

Kurt

 

[dlmoak]

You can find 19th century quill cutters on EBay. You insert the feather and it cuts it to the proper shape. then you use the attached pen knife to trim off the side you don't want and to adjust. I don't have any actual experience doing it.

[Inky Pinky]

I cut quills many years ago. My teacher was a former student of a member of Scribes and Illuminators in Great Britain.

 

We would cure the quills in dessicant (for preserving flowers) which had been heated in the microwave.

 

My quill knife has a fat handle and a short blade. I sharpened the blade on two Arkansas stones, one coarse and one fine, using soap as a lubricant. A scrap piece of leather was a strop to clean any metal shavings off the blade. And I think I did sharpen it on only one side. I used a piece of glass that was smoothed around the edges as a base on which to make the cuts.

 

The attached photo shows my quill knife - quite dull from lack of use - and a quill that I cut years ago. You want the end to be sturdy rather than a 'wet noodle' which is long, narrow and lacking in control. This knife was made in Germany. I got it from my teacher.

 

The attached instructions were given to me by an experienced calligrapher. I remember his assistant forming a reservoir for the inside of the quill from a piece cut from a plastic cup. A strong small piece of metal might be better.

 

I didn't dip the pen. I filled the reservoir with a brush. I didn't use ink. I used various shades of gouache which were mixed together.

 

A quill has more give than a metal pen. It's almost like using a brush.

quill_dr._ray.pdfFetching info...

[Randal6393]

Oh, yes, the German carving knife. Ran across that knife many years ago in Silver Dollar City, Missouri. The local whittlers sold them with a very narrow wood carving edge. Bought two and use them for fine work of all kinds.

 

My avatar is a picture of the quill knife I made in 1979 (or thereabouts). The traditional quill knife has a single-grind on one side, the quill-cutting side. The other side is rounded, sometimes a razor-ground bump, and is used to scrape mistakes from paper or parchment. Helps to cut a quill quickly and easily. Still, just like sharpening a pencil with a knife, I prefer a more modern writing tool for most work. Why cut quills when a good fountain pen already has a beautiful tip and is always ready to write.

[Lozzic]

Thank you for that quill cutting instruction document Inky Pinky it has some good information in it.

 

I was cutting a quill yesterday and I think I have learned how to do it properly. I created two other quills exactly the same as my successful one but with slightly different tip sizes and the ink flow was perfect, no blobs or thick lines at all:lol: ! I feel they write better than any chisel/broad tipped metal dip pen but obviously the draw back is the fact that you have to cut them and keep them sharp. I agree with those who say they feel very close to the way brushes feel.

 

 

  Randal6393 said:

Oh, yes, the German carving knife. Ran across that knife many years ago in Silver Dollar City, Missouri. The local whittlers sold them with a very narrow wood carving edge. Bought two and use them for fine work of all kinds.

 

My avatar is a picture of the quill knife I made in 1979 (or thereabouts). The traditional quill knife has a single-grind on one side, the quill-cutting side. The other side is rounded, sometimes a razor-ground bump, and is used to scrape mistakes from paper or parchment. Helps to cut a quill quickly and easily. Still, just like sharpening a pencil with a knife, I prefer a more modern writing tool for most work. Why cut quills when a good fountain pen already has a beautiful tip and is always ready to write.

 

You made that quill knife completely from scratch? Amazing!

 

I can understand why you would want to use modern pens for most work; I will still be using steel dip pens for a lot of Calligraphy writing. I think my interest in quills was triggered by sheer curiosity and historical interest, after all a large portion of the writing we observe from the past was done with them. I must say though in this very short time I have been practicing with a quill I feel they are in a category of their own unlike any other pen I have ever used.

 

 

I tried using that brass reservoir that Edward Johnston recommends but I don't feel that it is really that necessary, the ink capacity in these quills I have cut does not seem too little.

 

 

 

 

[Randal6393]

Good for you! Usually it only takes a few feathers to learn how to cut a quill. There is a feel to them that is unlike any other writing instrument. According to Marc Drogin (Medieval Calligraphy), you can even cut the slit to one side to use the corner for pulling out long ornamental hairlines. If you can get a few small pieces of parchment, try using a quill on them. That is another experience in and of itself.

 

The reservoir isn't needed but -- if you are writing a long passage -- it is nice to not run out of ink halfway through, try to squeak out a few more letters, and then have a spot where the lettering is darker because you FINALLY had to refill your pen.

 

Have fun, blessed be.

 

  Lozzic said:

Thank you for that quill cutting instruction document Inky Pinky it has some good information in it.

 

I was cutting a quill yesterday and I think I have learned how to do it properly. I created two other quills exactly the same as my successful one but with slightly different tip sizes and the ink flow was perfect, no blobs or thick lines at all:lol: ! I feel they write better than any chisel/broad tipped metal dip pen but obviously the draw back is the fact that you have to cut them and keep them sharp. I agree with those who say they feel very close to the way brushes feel.

 

 

  Randal6393 said:

Oh, yes, the German carving knife. Ran across that knife many years ago in Silver Dollar City, Missouri. The local whittlers sold them with a very narrow wood carving edge. Bought two and use them for fine work of all kinds.

 

My avatar is a picture of the quill knife I made in 1979 (or thereabouts). The traditional quill knife has a single-grind on one side, the quill-cutting side. The other side is rounded, sometimes a razor-ground bump, and is used to scrape mistakes from paper or parchment. Helps to cut a quill quickly and easily. Still, just like sharpening a pencil with a knife, I prefer a more modern writing tool for most work. Why cut quills when a good fountain pen already has a beautiful tip and is always ready to write.

 

You made that quill knife completely from scratch? Amazing!

 

I can understand why you would want to use modern pens for most work; I will still be using steel dip pens for a lot of Calligraphy writing. I think my interest in quills was triggered by sheer curiosity and historical interest, after all a large portion of the writing we observe from the past was done with them. I must say though in this very short time I have been practicing with a quill I feel they are in a category of their own unlike any other pen I have ever used.

 

 

I tried using that brass reservoir that Edward Johnston recommends but I don't feel that it is really that necessary, the ink capacity in these quills I have cut does not seem too little.

 

[Lozzic]

  Randal6393 said:

Good for you! Usually it only takes a few feathers to learn how to cut a quill. There is a feel to them that is unlike any other writing instrument. According to Marc Drogin (Medieval Calligraphy), you can even cut the slit to one side to use the corner for pulling out long ornamental hairlines. If you can get a few small pieces of parchment, try using a quill on them. That is another experience in and of itself.

 

The reservoir isn't needed but -- if you are writing a long passage -- it is nice to not run out of ink halfway through, try to squeak out a few more letters, and then have a spot where the lettering is darker because you FINALLY had to refill your pen.

 

Have fun, blessed be.

 

Yes I read about that off centre slit a while ago but I can't remember where, I didn't read it in Medieval Calligraphy. I think that the ability to draw the ink out with the corner of the nib is an absolute necessity with some scripts, metal nibs are inadequate in that respect. It must be possible to cut quills that do double lines...

 

Thanks for the help and info. I may post a writing sample with a quill soon.

 

[Inky Pinky]

Glad that Dr. Ray's quill instructions were helpful. He was a true master of pen, ink, and vellum.

 

I am impressed by the person who made their own knife. You are a craftsman!

 

I seem to recall that the final edge cuts on the quill should be done with deliberation and precision. Aim twice, cut once.

 

I attended a lecture by Marc Drogin in 1981 at St. John's University in Collegeville, Minnesota. It was part of the Calligraphy Connection convention. It was a mecca for calligraphers. Marc spoke of notes in the margins of books. He quoted a monk who complained about lack of enough daylight, since they couldn't work at night. He quoted a different monk who complained about wax dripping on the parchment.