Help me choose a cursive italic from Mr. Binder

[CMaxx]

Hey everybody,

 

I recently purchased a Lamy Al-Star with a 1.1 mm italic nib. I only have one problem with this pen: it has ruined all my other pens for me. I absolutely love this thing. I love what it does to the look of my writing, and it's pretty dang smooth to boot.

 

So, now my once-beloved Vanishing Point sits idly in a drawer, longing for the days when I used to shower it with affection. I see only one solution--an italic nib from Richard Binder.

 

I'm wondering which one to get. I'm leaning towards the biggest ready-made model, the .9mm cursive italic, but the .7 mm is also a possibility, as are either of the stubs (.6 or .8 mm). I guess these are the things I'm wondering about:

 

How does a Binder cursive italic compare to a stock lamy italic? (For example, is a lamy italic more like a Binder stub, or a Binder cursive italic?)

 

About line thickness and variation, with my 1.1 mm lamy italic I can write on college-ruled paper (which seems to be about 3.5 lines per inch) with no problem. A note on richardspens.com says that he measures the line produced, not the width of the nib. Is one of his .9 mm cursive italic nibs likely about the same size as the lamy 1.1? I also have a Pelikan m605 that skips on me. It also wants to be used, so I'm thinking I'll send it to Richard for a nib regrinding. It's currently got a medium nib, so I think he can turn that into a .6 or a .7 mm cursive italic. I think I need to get a larger size for my VP so I have some different choices.

 

Any other advice you can offer? Oh, and I would have just emailed Richard with these questions, but I'd really rather not bother him. I want to send that m605 to him, and his wait time is already at 19 weeks. I don't want to slow him down on that backlog!

 

adThanksvance fpners,

 

CMaxx

 

 

 

[CharlieB]

Actually, you should be asking these questions of Richard Binder, not of us. Besides being an expert nib grinder, he's also an expert at determining what it is that a person really wants in a nib, even when they can't express it in exact words.

[misterh]

Actually, you should be asking these questions of Richard Binder, not of us. Besides being an expert nib grinder, he's also an expert at determining what it is that a person really wants in a nib, even when they can't express it in exact words.

 

I'd second that.

 

I fancy one of his nibs, based on all of the positive comments on FPN, but am very new to the wonderful world of fountain pens, so wasn't sure what I needed. I emailed Richard earlier today and received a very quick and helpful reply and shall shortly be ordering one of his M200 stub nibs, as a result.

 

Regards,

 

Adrian

Edited February 18, 2008 by misterh

[Kay]

I would think your Lamy 1.1 nib writes fatter than a Binder .9 stub or cursive italic (for the VP), which of course would be fatter than a .7 m (if you get the re-grind from the M nib).

 

I would suggest that you handwrite a note to Richard, partly in your Lamy italic, and partly in the nib and size you were most comfortable with pre-italic days, and I think he can tell a lot about what nib is most likely to suit you. (Especially if you are writing about what you like and what you are looking for in the nibs). I have had really excellent experiences with Richard's expertise in this way. If you know exactly what you want, great, he can do it; and if you're not sure exactly what you want, he is really good at helping you figure it out.

[girlieg33k]

I'd second that.

I'd third it. Richard Binder is able to read my facial expressions, whimper, and sign language as I sit silently watching him regrind my nibs to perfection.

 

Edit: Added gratuitous emot.

Edited February 18, 2008 by girlieg33k

[CMaxx]

Okay guys and gals, I guess I can take a hint. :embarrassed_smile:

 

Hey, I was only trying to speed up the process for everybody waiting for stuff from Herr Binder. My gain just might be your loss. Oh, and my other excuse is that because for this VP nib I'm just buying an italic "off the shelf" from him, I wasn't expecting any "personalization" on it.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

CMaxx

[yachtsilverswan]

Nothing wrong with asking for other opinions. I think folks are just emphasizing that no matter what you find here, you are best served by being as thorough and as detailed as possible with your nibmeister.

 

Here's a scan of two of Nibmeister Binder's Vanishing Point Cursive Italic nibs - one in 0.7 mm and the other in 0.9 mm. Notice how the two cursive italic nibs compare to the round stock Michel Perchin nib - much more line width variation in the cursive italics.

 

Edited February 19, 2008 by yachtsilverswan

[caliken]

I recently bought 3 'off the shelf' nibs for my Pelikan M200 pens from Richard Binder - .7 and .9 cursive italic and xxxf with flex added.

All three nibs are wonderful, and as they are already produced, there is no wait.

 

caliken

[CharlieB]

I recently bought 3 'off the shelf' nibs for my Pelikan M200 pens from Richard Binder - .7 and .9 cursive italic and xxxf with flex added.

All three nibs are wonderful, and as they are already produced, there is no wait.

 

Nice purchase! Too bad Richard doesn't offer M800 nibs "off the shelf" like he does with the M200....

 

[i can hear Richard now saying, "Quit complaining, Charlie, and just send me the M800 pen!"

[blueiris]

How does a Binder cursive italic compare to a stock lamy italic? (For example, is a lamy italic more like a Binder stub, or a Binder cursive italic?)

 

I'm not an expert, and Richard can probably answer more definitively than I, but I do own a Lamy 1.1, and I have some experience with some of Richard's custom nibs. For what it's worth, here are my 2 cents.

 

If you like the size of the Lamy 1.1, go for the larger sizes offered by Richard. I have a 0.6-0.7 Binder stub, and the 1.1 seems huge compared to it.

 

I used to have a 0.7 Binder cursive italic. My writing showed a lot of line variation with it (like with the Lamy 1.1), but the feel of the nib was more angular--still smooth, but I noticed a more angular feel when going around curves of letters. The horizontal stroke of the Binder cursive italic was much, much finer, so I'm sure that was the reason for both the degree of line variation as well as the different feel while writing.

 

I tend to think of the Lamy 1.1 as a stub. The sides are rounded and the horizontal stroke isn't razor-thin, but the nib is wide enough that there's still ample line variation between the wide vertical stroke and the not-as-wide horizontal stroke. I don't have any experience with Richard's large stubs to compare with the Lamy, though. My 0.6-0.7 stub feels less angular than the cursive italic when writing but gives subtle line variation compared with the Lamy 1.1; that is as expected, given that it is not nearly as wide as the Lamy 1.1.

 

To use a candy analogy, of the nibs I have tried in the past, I think of the tip of my Lamy 1.1 as a Hot Tamale (wide and tubular), the 0.7 Binder cursive italic I formerly owned as a piece of licorice pastels (tubular but smaller and slimmer), crisp italic nibs as a sticks of gum, and my 0.6-0.7 Binder stub as a jelly bean. My regular unmodified nibs are like gumballs or jawbreakers. I'm sorry to say that I am not sure where a 0.8 stub would fit into this, but I would guess that it's somewhere in between the jelly bean and the Hot Tamale. Similarly, I would guess that the 0.9 cursive italic would be like a licorice pastels piece that is longer than others, but just as slim.

 

Good luck selecting your new nib!

 

(edited because I realized I switched candy references mid-post--the former reference to Mike&Ike is now changed to the Hot Tamale )

Edited February 19, 2008 by blueiris

[Keng]

To use a candy analogy, of the nibs I have tried in the past, I think of the tip of my Lamy 1.1 as a Hot Tamale (wide and tubular), the 0.7 Binder cursive italic I formerly owned as a piece of licorice pastels (tubular but smaller and slimmer), crisp italic nibs as a sticks of gum, and my 0.6-0.7 Binder stub as a jelly bean. My regular unmodified nibs are like gumballs or jawbreakers. I'm sorry to say that I am not sure where a 0.8 stub would fit into this, but I would guess that it's somewhere in between the jelly bean and the Mike&Ike. Similarly, I would guess that the 0.9 cursive italic would be like a licorice pastels piece that is longer than others, but just as slim.

 

....Sweet nibs....

 

Mike

 

[irfan]

I wonder if anyone reading this thread has had any experience with Richard's oblique cursive italics, particularly the 15 degree left-foot cursive italic. I'm a right hander and I tend to rotate a nib counter-clockwise, so Richard suggest going with that nib. Can anyone tell me how different it is to write with compared to a non-oblique cursive italic? Of course, it depends on the way you hold a pen - but maybe someone out there has used both?

 

I'm also asking Richard to do a bit of work on a Pelkan 100N, that has what seems to me to be a very broad, flexible nib. I came close to asking Richard to transform that into a stub nib - it would be interesting to see how the combination of flexibility and italics works. But I restrained myself.

 

Has anyone else tried anything similar to that?

 

 

[Jeff Muscato]

I wonder if anyone reading this thread has had any experience with Richard's oblique cursive italics, particularly the 15 degree left-foot cursive italic. I'm a right hander and I tend to rotate a nib counter-clockwise, so Richard suggest going with that nib. Can anyone tell me how different it is to write with compared to a non-oblique cursive italic? Of course, it depends on the way you hold a pen - but maybe someone out there has used both?

 

I'm also asking Richard to do a bit of work on a Pelkan 100N, that has what seems to me to be a very broad, flexible nib. I came close to asking Richard to transform that into a stub nib - it would be interesting to see how the combination of flexibility and italics works. But I restrained myself.

 

Has anyone else tried anything similar to that?

When I ordered my M600 from John Mottishaw, he recommended a 10-degree oblique crisp italic for me. The way I naturally held my (straight) italic M200 made it difficult to keep the far (right-side) corner of the nib on the paper, so the slightly oblique nib extends that far corner down to the paper, if you will.

 

It took some time to get used to it because I had learned to compensate with a straight italic, but now, writing with my M200 feels forced and difficult. The only detriment to the experience is that I probably won't buy any stock italic pens now that I know I like this nib. (Maybe that's a benefit, actually--I could foresee myself spending way too much on italic pens....)

 

Here's a photo of the two, though I'm not sure how well you'll be able to see the differences. The M600 also has a much thinner thin line but this photo doesn't really show the front edges of the nibs.

 

http://www.getCIT.com/files/jeff/IMG_0515_m200italic-m600italic.jpg

[Richard]

I wonder if anyone reading this thread has had any experience with Richard's oblique cursive italics, particularly the 15 degree left-foot cursive italic.

I have. For people who rotate their pens, an oblique is probably a good idea. For people who don't rotate, let's just not go there. How do you know whether you rotate? You get someone to watch you writing and compare what he or she sees with these images:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/site/nibneeds/rotations_r.gif

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/site/nibneeds/rotations_l.gif

 

One, and only one, of these images reflects how you write. (The first and third in each row show rotation, but they are exaggerated to emphasize the point.) If you are a center image, you don't rotate and should not normally use an oblique.

[mischaz]

Hi, CMaxx:

 

It looks like you are in the same place as I am, for I am also new to this group and I recently received my first "real" fountain pen, a Lamy Al-Star with a 1.1mm Italic nib. Sound familiar? In point of fact, I have recently written Mr. Binder about my emerging issues, and he made a short, polite reply, suggesting that I get a Pelikan M200 with one of his steel Italic nibs. My main issue with the new Lamy is that it simply does not produce enough contrast, a sideways stroke with it does not produce the fine line that I want. I just don't know, perhaps this particular nib was not finished properly...

Anyway, I feel that this issue could be resolved if I could simply see handwriting examples of the 1.1 Lamy Italic nib by one of Mr. Binder's Pelikan Italic nibs. I suspect that the 0.9mm Pelikan Italic nib would offer me the greatest insight into comparison of available line width variation. In trying to search for this comparison in our Network, I find that my searches are inclined to miss what I'm interested in. Perhaps this also relates to my inexperience with a new, specialized vocabulary. As such, any leads would be greatly appreciated! I still can't help but wonder if the look of a flex-nib is more in-line with the vision I hold. I would greatly appreciate being directed toward these examples as well. This makes me wish for a "master nib compilation/comparison" sheet on this Network, using standardized phrases and letter sizes that group members could add to as time goes by. If there is one already, please let me know!

 

Yours,

 

Mischa Z

[caliken]

I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but if you go here you will see an example written with a .7 italic cursive nib from R Binder. To get the finest possible contrast, you need a sharp italic nib, but they are really for slow italic calligraphy and are not as useful for general handwriting, where a cursive nib is better. Richard Binder's modified nibs are wonderful, and the combination of a Pelikan M200 pen with one of his nibs, is a joy to write with.

[irfan]

http://www.richardspens.com/images/site/nibneeds/rotations_r.gif

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/site/nibneeds/rotations_l.gif

 

One, and only one, of these images reflects how you write. (The first and third in each row show rotation, but they are exaggerated to emphasize the point.) If you are a center image, you don't rotate and should not normally use an oblique.

 

To be honest, not having observed that many other people writing with a fountain pen, I was under the impression that rotating nib counterclockwise was something everyone - or every right-handed writer - did. I'll have to observe my mermaid and life-partner as she writes.

 

I also noticed, using my Pelikan M400 for annotating on some particularly nasty and unforgiving paper, that it skipped on the cross strokes of 't's. It never usually skips, so I looked at it closely and noticed that if I made a special effort to hold it centered rather than rotated, it didn't skip. Holding it that way felt very unnatural to me, though. But while people seem to associate 'oblique' with 'italic', I suppose that you could ask some kind nib-master to make an oblique round nib, although probably it wouldn't be as important an issue as with the italics - unless you are using ratty paper.

 

You never really get to the end of this nib business, do you?

 

[blueiris]

To CMaxx, I've posted a link to a scan of my Lamy 1.1 writing sample, along with my other cursive italics and stubs. The Lamy 1.1 is my largest one.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...showtopic=54346

 

Hope this helps a little, at least in seeing how some of the sizes compare (only one of them is by Richard Binder, though).

Edited February 21, 2008 by blueiris

[nhsmitty]

Very timely thread as I'm debating an under 1.0mm stub nib in the near future.

 

FWIW, I have a Binder M200 cursive italic and it's a great writer. Actually the wife has taken it over she loves it soooo much! From what I read I think a stub will be a more fitting everyday writer for my frantic and inconsistent handwriting style.

[rogerb]

Very timely thread as I'm debating an under 1.0mm stub nib in the near future.

 

FWIW, I have a Binder M200 cursive italic and it's a great writer. Actually the wife has taken it over she loves it soooo much! From what I read I think a stub will be a more fitting everyday writer for my frantic and inconsistent handwriting style.

 

You may well be correct; I, too have a M200 with Binder 0.7 c.i. and love it.

However, for sheer 'ease' and speed of writing, while still retaining some line-width variation, my Stipula 0.9mm stub and similar-sized Waterman Exception stub are better.

 

My round-pointed Visconti Medium writes too easily, and I lose 'control', so it will go to Mr B to be 'cursively italicised'