ExtraExtraFine Flexi-Nib Writing Comparison

[QM2]

My last topic before I am off the forum again for a while!

 

These writing samples are from two pens that can be seen as both very similar and very different:

 

Sample "D" is the Danitrio Raw Ebonite, Takumi Model, with EF Flexi-Nib that was reground to .275mm by Richard Binder;

Sample "N" is the Nakaya Urushi, Piccolo Cigar Model, with Elastic Super-EF Nib.

 

Both are inked with a mix of 90% Montblanc Racing Green/ 10% Noodler's Legal Lapis (yes, they can be mixed!).

Rhodia 5x5 graph paper

 

 

 

 

In the first image, the comparison is between a well-known text that everyone can read.

In the second image, the comparison is between spontaneous doodles and foreign text that probably almost no one can read.

 

 

You can decide for yourself what you think of the difference. I am biased by being aware of how each pen feels, so I can't tell. But if I try to be objective, than to me they actually look near-identical on paper.

 

As for the subjective experience of writing with them, here are some observations:

 

- The Nakaya has a bit more flex than the Danitrio, especially after it's been broken in.

 

- For some reason, Danitrio makes ink colors look darker than other pens. This has nothing to do with it being an EEF; it did the same before the nib was reground. The only other pen I own that does this, is my Pelikan M215 Lozenge. I have no idea why some pens do this!

 

- In the Nakaya, ink colors show up the same as in most of my other pens. However, there is tonal variation within Nakaya's writing, whereas with Danitrio the tone stays even. Don't know whether you can see that in these samples. But of you take a look at the word "beside" in the "N" sample on the first scan, you can kind of see it.

 

- I find it a bit more difficult to handle the flex of the Nakaya than the flex of the Danitrio; I feel that I have less control over line variation and sometimes my handwriting seems to "get away from me". However, I've had Danitrio for longer and have used it a lot more often, so possibly I am just more used to it.

 

- In addition to the nib differences, the Danitrio Takumi model is a huge, rubber-smelling pen (in a good way!), whereas the Nakaya Piccolo is small in comparison (an inch shorter) and delicately lacquered. This does make a difference in how I write with these. With the Nakaya it feels that there is "more responsibility" and I must be more careful/write prettier, whereas Danitrio feels like a tank in which I can relax and write anyway I want. As a result, in an uncontrolled environment (i.e. when I am writing my own notes rather than a sample to scan for FPN), my writing with Danitrio tends to be more relaxed and larger than with the Nakaya.

 

This wasn't meant to be a review; just a casual comparison. But hopefully it is useful to those wondering about Nakaya-Danitrio differences.

 

Keep in mind too, that the finer the nib, the less you will feel the flex and the less flex-induced line variation will be visible in your writing. And these nibs are about as EF as possible for a pen with flex.

 

QM2

Edited December 31, 2007 by QM2

[Immoteus]

If you're having difficulty with your Nakaya I would be more than happy to take it off your hands at no charge! I was wondering though, how does it perform when you write in a Spencerian/Copperplate style.

[CaseyK]

To me the N sample appears to be a thinner, drier line but as to flex, i can't see any significant difference.

[QM2]

If you're having difficulty with your Nakaya I would be more than happy to take it off your hands at no charge! I was wondering though, how does it perform when you write in a Spencerian/Copperplate style.

 

Thanks for your kind concern, but the difficulties are under control : ) Besides, it's got my name on it in silver Maki-e Kanji characters, sorry! But seriously: The Danitrio took me a a little while to get used to as well, but I've had it for 9 months now, so I am accustomed to how it handles. With the Nakaya, I am not quite there yet, so it occasionally surprises me by flexing on a stroke where I don't expect it to, resulting in my writing looking a bit uneven.

 

I don't write in a a Spencerian/Copperplate style, so sadly, the pens don't perform in that department at all. I know I know -- some would say these fine instruments are wasted on me, since I do not do caligraphy! But I like the feel of a modern flex nib for everyday writing: I write a lot, and the flex makes it more enjoyable -- so to me its worth it.

 

 

[Lozzic]

On the first image the N text appears to me to contain more line thickness variation which give it a subtly darker and thicker appearance at first glance. The thin strokes however seem to be the same as the D text. One the second image I think D and N are indistinguishable.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Lozzic

[trencherman]

iew; just a casual comparison. But hopefully it is useful to those wondering about Nakaya-Danitrio differences.

 

Keep in mind too, that the finer the nib, the less you will feel the flex and the less flex-induced line variation will be visible in your writing. And these nibs are about as EF as possible for a pen with flex.

 

QM2

 

Really? My experience with other pens is the reverse. I get enhanced line variation from finer flexible nibs.

[PaulK]

If you're having difficulty with your Nakaya I would be more than happy to take it off your hands at no charge! I was wondering though, how does it perform when you write in a Spencerian/Copperplate style.

 

Thanks for your kind concern, but the difficulties are under control : ) Besides, it's got my name on it in silver Maki-e Kanji characters, sorry! But seriously: The Danitrio took me a a little while to get used to as well, but I've had it for 9 months now, so I am accustomed to how it handles. With the Nakaya, I am not quite there yet, so it occasionally surprises me by flexing on a stroke where I don't expect it to, resulting in my writing looking a bit uneven.

 

I don't write in a a Spencerian/Copperplate style, so sadly, the pens don't perform in that department at all. I know I know -- some would say these fine instruments are wasted on me, since I do not do caligraphy! But I like the feel of a modern flex nib for everyday writing: I write a lot, and the flex makes it more enjoyable -- so to me its worth it.

 

 

I know exactly what QM2 is saying -- my flexy med. Densho changes my handwriting (for the worse) so I find myself having to slow my writing speed. In a nutshell, I need to practice more with this pen.

 

-P

[Silas]

The 2 samples look pretty much the same to me.

I have the Danitrio Densho is fine flex and find I can get great line variation....perhaps because I'm used to writing with the vintage flex nibs of Eversharp, Waterman, Swan. I know there is a rhythm one must get into on the DOWN strokes where a bit more pressure is applied, while the upstroke is a let up where the nib springs back. If you've not been accustomed to this method, then the pressure you apply is always the same and it looks like a regular nib.

 

That is what happened to ME. But I don't know what others do. I would like to order a flexible stub next time from Danitrio to get the shading of the inks like in Apache Sunset.

 

The Densho seems to thrive on PR Supershow Blue, too.

[Solomander]

Thanks for the interesting comparison. Can I infer that you like the Danitrio a bit better? I would love to see side by side pix. I am thinking of either a Takumi or a Piccolo writer in urushi as my big pen buy of 2008.

 

Joel

[QM2]

Can I infer that you like the Danitrio a bit better?

 

No, not at all. The pens are *extremely different* in terms of how they handle and how writing with them feels, even though it may seem that it is a similar product offered by 2 different brands; there is really no comparing them. The Danitrio Raw Ebonite is a more casual writer, because it is big and rubbery. It makes me want to chew on it, or knead it in my hand. And did I mention that it is BIG? The Nakaya Urushi Piccolo is a much smaller and more delicate pen, mesmorisingly shiny and festive-looking. They are just very different pens, obviously meant to be used under different circumstances. To truly compare Danitrio with Nakaya, you would need to level the playing field by comparing a bespoke Danitrio Urushi against the Nakaya Urushi. Anybody in the position to do that?

 

As for the nibs, I also truly cannot say which I prefer. Nakaya's Elastic Nib is technically more interesting than Danitrio's, because of its unusual shape (it looks like its sides have been bitten off). The difference in how the two nibs feel is very difficult to put into words, especially while trying to bring across my equal liking of both. The main point I want to stress is that they *do* feel *very* different. Perhaps Nakaya is softer -- which in some ways is "better", but in other ways is "worse", because this makes the flex a bit harder to control. So I would really not be able to give you advice as to which to get. The thing to keep in mind is that I am not comparing the Nakaya to an out-of-the-box Danitrio, but rather to a reground Danitrio, where the nib has been reduced to a .275 point -- a very close match to the Nakaya Super Extra Fine Elastic. The out-of-the box width of a Danitrio "EF" however, is *significantly* wider than that, I would say equivalent to a Japanese Medium.

 

I would love to see side by side pix. I am thinking of either a Takumi or a Piccolo writer in urushi as my big pen buy of 2008.

 

I will try to photograph and upload them when i have the time, but that may not be soon. My advice, however, after owning both is: Do not choose between them, but rather decide which you want first. They are just too different.

 

Hope this does not confuse you too much : )

QM2

[QM2]

I have the Danitrio Densho is fine flex and find I can get great line variation....

 

Silas -- agreed, but Danitrio's out-of-the-box "Fine Flex" is nothing compared to the .275mm nib that I now have. Mine was an EF Flex before I got it reground, and I wrote with it for a couple of months before sending it to Richard. The line variation of the original nib was pretty dramatic, but the nib was much too wide for me. After I had the EF Flexi reground to a "true" Japanese EF, you can see the result for yourself. In my view, the sample I uploaded does *not* show a great deal of line variation, either for the Danitrio or the Nakaya -- so in the case of Danitrio the degree of line variation decreased after the nib was made finer...