3D Printed Clips Have Arrived!

[18111]

Continued from this topic.

 

Well, I have mixed feelings about these. They have very interesting look, rough and sandy feel, even polished one's don't look polished at all. Very sloppy work. However, I kind of like the rough textured ones.

 

The Raw stainless looks silver, and the raw brass looks gold to me. The polished, gold plated steel looks more like brass, as does the polished plated nickel one. Could it be a mistake? Raw bronze looks like it was contaminated with steel. I will try polishing them to see what happens.

 

The dimension of the clips were very close as designed, the numbers also came out very clean and sharp. I think it has a lot of potential if you are fine with the textured finish. However, if you are looking for a slick, polished finish, it should be done by yourself or order from somewhere else.

 

Over all, I like them and I will probably use them.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2014 by 18111

[oldmatekev]

In the second photo the light reflection makes it look like there's a polished strip down the length of one of the clips, the effect is pretty cool.

I wonder if you might try just smoothing and polishing (or brushing) a neat strip over the numbers and leave the rest coarse.

 

(The textured ring part looks really good when it's installed on the pen)

Edited October 30, 2014 by oldmatekev

[mbradley]

I like the Raw Brass, it would look great on the right pen.

 

Michael

[richardandtracy]

I'm in two minds about them too. The finish is nowhere near as good as one would have hoped, however it is an entirely different finish from normal, and the aesthetic could be embraced & used to great benefit.

 

How rigid are the clips & does it feel secure on the pen?

 

I wonder how long they will last in terms of clip uses.. There shouldn't be a problem, but it is a new technology & not a great deal is known about it.

 

I think, once I have sorted the file out (to meet the minimum embossing dimension requirements and convert the clip from its current sheet metal design), I will try these people: http://i.materialise.com/ who claim to do 'HS' stainless steel from 316 stainless & no bronze inclusions in the material. Their minimum embossing dimensions appear much smaller than specified by Shapeways. The maximum object size is much smaller too, at 40 x 40 x 35mm. Their standard stainless steel tank size etc seems to be very similar to Shapeways.

 

 

 

To the pioneer - it has been fascinating to watch & you've given a great deal of encouragement to the rest of us. Thank you.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Ayami_109]

There are a few types of 3D printing but for metals, the most common process would be SLS sintering - which stands for Selective Laser Sintering. It's basically powdered metal fused together, hence the gritty nature of the finish. Looking at your clips, this is most likely to have been the 3D printing process used. I have tried SLS sitntering with polymer (same principle) and it was a heck of a lot of work sanding/polishing it smooth. With that much sanding/polishing, quite a bit of material is taken off and extra tolerance must be factored in. So for the polished clips I think they could have done a better job, but the raw finish reflects the process - you either like or you don't.

 

If you prefer a much more refined finish and am looking at a small scale (batch) production, I suggest investment casting. For this process they 3D print the wax in the form of the clips, attach them to spruces, then pour caster over the top. The wax is melted out then molten metal poured in. Finally the spruce is trimmed off and the resulting mark polished.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Ayami_109

[18111]

  On 10/30/2014 at 8:59 AM, richardandtracy said:

I'm in two minds about them too. The finish is nowhere near as good as one would have hoped, however it is an entirely different finish from normal, and the aesthetic could be embraced & used to great benefit.

 

How rigid are the clips & does it feel secure on the pen?

 

I wonder how long they will last in terms of clip uses.. There shouldn't be a problem, but it is a new technology & not a great deal is known about it.

 

I think, once I have sorted the file out (to meet the minimum embossing dimension requirements and convert the clip from its current sheet metal design), I will try these people: http://i.materialise.com/ who claim to do 'HS' stainless steel from 316 stainless & no bronze inclusions in the material. Their minimum embossing dimensions appear much smaller than specified by Shapeways. The maximum object size is much smaller too, at 40 x 40 x 35mm. Their standard stainless steel tank size etc seems to be very similar to Shapeways.

 

 

 

To the pioneer - it has been fascinating to watch & you've given a great deal of encouragement to the rest of us. Thank you.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

They feel somewhat soft but ridged enough and has some spring if not polished. However, the polished ones bent easily at thinest point. You'll need to design them extra thickness if you want to apply polish as mentioned by Ayami_109.

 

The high detailed stainless steel is indeed interesting. Now, you'll be the nxet guinea pig!

 

  On 10/30/2014 at 11:08 AM, Ayami_109 said:

There are a few types of 3D printing but for metals, the most common process would be SLS sintering - which stands for Selective Laser Sintering. It's basically powdered metal fused together, hence the gritty nature of the finish. Looking at your clips, this is most likely to have been the 3D printing process used. I have tried SLS sitntering with polymer (same principle) and it was a heck of a lot of work sanding/polishing it smooth. With that much sanding/polishing, quite a bit of material is taken off and extra tolerance must be factored in. So for the polished clips I think they could have done a better job, but the raw finish reflects the process - you either like or you don't.

 

If you prefer a much more refined finish and am looking at a small scale (batch) production, I suggest investment casting. For this process they 3D print the wax in the form of the clips, attach them to spruces, then pour caster over the top. The wax is melted out then molten metal poured in. Finally the spruce is trimmed off and the resulting mark polished.

I thought brass and bronze are investment casting at Shapeways but apparently not a good one, their textures are as same as stainless steel.

Edited October 30, 2014 by 18111

[richardandtracy]

Yep, I had seen that the 'ST' stainless is the same as Shapeways, however the 'HS' specifically states it's 316L ( http://i.materialise.com/materials/high-detailed-stainless-steel ) - must have been what I was remembering a few days ago.

 

316L is not so good on UTS or yield as a 420 stainless though - be lucky to get in excess of 180N/mm^2 yield strength, and if sintering is not perfect will have to consider possibly as high as a 50% knockdown factor.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[duncsuss]

Thanks for sharing your adventure!

 

These are perhaps not suitable for all pens -- but no clip is perfect for every pen. I'm sure that you'll be able to integrate them into a pen design that works.

 

Now I have to think about how I would design a clip to take advantage of this surface finish.

[Inspector]

If investment casting is to be used to make the end product, perhaps printing the mould, polish it where needed and then using it to make the wax clips would be better than printing wax clips every time would be the way to go.

 

Pete

[TMLee]

I think this is awesome !!!!

 

Just a few years more , and this rough texture will be a thing of the past !

 

 

 

Maybe this texture is superb for a pen barrel - to look like stone finish !!!!

 

:-)

[Ayami_109]

I'm thinking that the raw stainless steel finish looks like volcanic rock that has cooled. Maybe it would be suitable for a volcano inspired pen? Say, an acrylic pen body the colour of orange/red magma. OR black background with thin orange swirls to make it look like lava peeking out from a cracked crust.

 

[18111]

Just a curiosity, i uploaded my clip file to the i.materialse.com for high detail stainless steel. Oh boy, whooping $133.18!

I would rather order a platinum for that price.

[18111]

  On 10/30/2014 at 5:07 PM, duncsuss said:

Thanks for sharing your adventure!

 

These are perhaps not suitable for all pens -- but no clip is perfect for every pen. I'm sure that you'll be able to integrate them into a pen design that works.

 

Now I have to think about how I would design a clip to take advantage of this surface finish.

We need to work around the limitation but there is a lot of potential for new designs.

  On 10/30/2014 at 5:29 PM, Inspector said:

If investment casting is to be used to make the end product, perhaps printing the mould, polish it where needed and then using it to make the wax clips would be better than printing wax clips every time would be the way to go.

 

Pete

I believe making woking model first then mold would be the logical approach.

 

  On 10/31/2014 at 4:53 AM, TMLee said:

I think this is awesome !!!!

 

Just a few years more , and this rough texture will be a thing of the past !

 

 

 

Maybe this texture is superb for a pen barrel - to look like stone finish !!!!

 

:-)

Yes, the technology evolve fast. However, there are still many possibilities as is... pen barrel is certainly one of them.

  On 10/31/2014 at 5:09 AM, Ayami_109 said:

I'm thinking that the raw stainless steel finish looks like volcanic rock that has cooled. Maybe it would be suitable for a volcano inspired pen? Say, an acrylic pen body the colour of orange/red magma. OR black background with thin orange swirls to make it look like lava peeking out from a cracked crust.

 

That's a great idea! Make one for yourself!

[mikespenturningz]

They are different and that is what makes them so awesome. I really like them.

[hatchetfish]

I wondered if perhaps this would be the result when I saw the other thread. Something common in gunsmithing is the availability of replacement or custom parts 'in the rough', meaning rough cast parts that need filed (and potentially machined) and polished to final and dimensions. Jewelers, of course, deal with castings similarly. It might be useful to adjust thinking on this supplier similarly: Submit a model file oversized in most dimensions to create a 'blank' to be hand finished to the final piece.

 

The other thought I originally had was wondering about the mechanical properties. Casting, especially of small parts, often leaves a brittle crystal structure, even without the issue of inclusions and porosity. I wouldn't expect to be able to get both a functional and durable self-spring clip out of this process, at least not without a lot of trial, error, and frequent discards even so.

Edited November 2, 2014 by hatchetfish

[hatchetfish]

One (probably) last thought is that I notice the design emulates a stamped sheet metal clip, with the hollowed underside and thickness. It might be useful to think more in terms of the basic structural design of the Lamy 2000's clip, the Visconti clips, and similar, to improve strength and reliability.

[richardandtracy]

  On 10/31/2014 at 10:39 PM, 18111 said:

Just a curiosity, i uploaded my clip file to the i.materialse.com for high detail stainless steel. Oh boy, whooping $133.18!

I would rather order a platinum for that price.

Ye Gods. I've not got a file in a state where I could do that, so haven't tried to get a quote. I will sometime next week, but it sounds absolutely prohibitive...

 

Regards,

 

Richard