My First Vintage "fake" Montblanc....

[fountainbel]

Hi all,

I found this "Montblanc" yesterday at the first Belgian pen show.

Although the markings - on both the cap and body- clearly show the Montblanc logo and stamps, the word "Masterpiece" is wrongly spelled and reads"Masterpise".

Given this fact, and never having seen a similar model , I concluded this must be a fake , or in the ideal case a prototype which never reached production.

I've never seen a vintage "fake" Montblanc, thought only moderns were copied !

The pen is made in a beautiful green marbled and transparent celluloid, and op the cap top is a perfect large star .... made in mother of pearl !

The piston filling system is the fantastic telescopic version, completely identical to the original version, or could be they used an original piston.

All i can say , this surely is a beautiful pen, perfectly made, not a cheap made simplified version as the modern copies are.

If it is a fake- which I expect - those guys went far, making the hot imprinting stamps most have cost a lot of money !

Note the clip and nib were missing , so I've installed these myself.

My question is, has anybody of you ever seen a similar "fake " vintage Montblanc??

Given the costs involved in making perfect hot stamping tools, i should expect not only one was made...

Thanks in advance !

Francis

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/fountainbel/Repaired%20Vintage%20fountain%20pens/P1000433.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/fountainbel/Repaired%20Vintage%20fountain%20pens/P1000434.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/fountainbel/Repaired%20Vintage%20fountain%20pens/P1000435.jpg

[hari317]

Hi Francis, amazing! I believe fountainpen.de and axel(penparadise) might have comments on this since IIRC they had mentioned the sophisticated vintage Mb fakery business in the past...

Edited September 30, 2013 by hari317

[logantrky]

Hmmm that is very unusual!

[Pen Nut]

Interesting Francis and if you class it as 'perfectly made' that tells me that there is more to this 'fake' than meets the eye.

[fountainbel]

Interesting Francis and if you class it as 'perfectly made' that tells me that there is more to this 'fake' than meets the eye.

 

`Hi Pen Nut,

When I'm referring to "perfectly made" i specifically refer to the "technical aspects" of the pen, not directly the esthetics !

This pen is old and used but technically perfectly made, with no compromises on quality.

Although its shape does not really appeal to me....

Francis

[Michael R.]

Very intersting; there was an article on vintage Montblanc fakes in a German pen magazin several years ago.

 

I'm very curious on how this turns out. Mabybe you might want to check with Horst Max Schrage as well.

 

Please keep us updated.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[Chrissy]

It actually looks quite like a Pelikan

[JLS1]

Hold on a second...let's assume that Francis is right and this MB pen is a fake. Why would someone spend considerable money on parts, materials, labour, etc. to create a nearly perfect replica - with a working telescopic piston, no less - only to screw it up with an obvious (and I mean OBVIOUS) spelling mistake like "Masterpise"!?!?

 

This just doesn't make sense to me...even if the counterfeiter was to sell them on eBay and nobody caught on for a while (which is unlikely given the above), is the profit on vintage MBs enough to cover their costs?

[hari317]

Hold on a second...let's assume that Francis is right and this MB pen is a fake. Why would someone spend considerable money on parts, materials, labour, etc. to create a nearly perfect replica - with a working telescopic piston, no less - only to screw it up with an obvious (and I mean OBVIOUS) spelling mistake like "Masterpise"!?!?

 

This just doesn't make sense to me...even if the counterfeiter was to sell them on eBay and nobody caught on for a while (which is unlikely given the above), is the profit on vintage MBs enough to cover their costs?

maybe that is his sign to others that "look, this is a replica"...

[fountainbel]

Thanks all for your reactions !

@JLS1:

This pen is an old pen, surely not made during the last decades.

I've found it in a box full with old defective pens, having being stored away for ages according the seller

As what concerns the inscriptions :

On the cap : " MONTBLANC (Mountains symbol) MASTERPISE "

On the barrel : " SIM ( big star symbol in circle) PLO"

"ORIGINAL MONTBLANC"

"D.R.P. 508058"

On the collar of the telescopic filler :

"D.R.P. 652405"

Hope this helps !

Francis

[Calamus plasticus]

Original Montblanc? Are there real vintage Montblancs with that inscription?

 

Perhaps it was a fake to be selled out of central Europe...

 

The Masterpise name is very funny... what a pitty is not a Masterpiss... sorry, I could not help myself.

[Opooh]

 

 

On the cap : " MONTBLANC (Mountains symbol) MASTERPISE "

On the barrel : " SIM ( big star symbol in circle) PLO"

"ORIGINAL MONTBLANC"

"D.R.P. 508058"

On the collar of the telescopic filler :

"D.R.P. 652405"

Hope this helps !

Francis

Hello Francis,

 

The markings D.R.P. ( Deutches Reichspatent ) are clearly patents owned by Montblanc:

508058 is for the push-knobfiller patented in 1929

652405 is for the fabrication of striated windows patented in 1936

 

The telescopic pistonfiller has number 746437 also patented in 1936.

 

The original text is from Max: http://www.maxpens.de/bilder/mbpatente.htm

 

So why would someone who makes a fake put the patent of a push-knobfiller instead of the telescopic pistonfiller.

Same with that Masterpise, looks to me more like practical jokes from insiders. Probably you found an early prototype.

[watch_art]

Any chance it was a "mistake" by somebody who worked at the factory, as an "accident", in the hopes that they could take it home? wink wink.

Just a thought.

[Maxpens]

Hmm, this is the now the second I saw within 4 weeks, seems that there is a "new kid in town "

 

The pen was offered and sold on Ebay Germany, without nib and section. I had this pen in my hand because the buyer is a customer of maxpens repair service. But I had to tell him that the pen is a fake. He payed something aroud 700.- Euro !

 

As Francis said, these Fake´s is made with "love", not like the other fakes I got in the past ( showed at maxpens.de )

 

 

kind regards

 

Max

 

 

 

 

 

[penboard.de]

Hello there,

 

I have seen quite a bit of these, always the same wonderfully made hot stamp on the barrel,

they were too lazy (or ignorant) to realize, they put a buttonfiller patent on a pistonfiller.

Found these rammed into Rotring Tintenkuli herringbone for example.

Origin? sumfaketory in Bulgaria.

 

Just had a discussion with a German ebay seller, he refused to understand my warnings to sell some colored parts pen in the end at 740 euro.

 

NO hope at all this is a mistake committed in a real MB factory, its a faketory pen.

 

Regards

Tom

[penboard.de]

 

Just had a discussion with a German ebay seller, he refused to understand my warnings to sell some colored parts pen in the end at 740 euro.

 

 

Regards

Tom

 

 

ahhh, just now I see, MAX shows the pen I am talking about.

the one sold in ebay. 3 frauds in a row.... someone probably bought it from the Bulgarian maker (fraud no.1), carried it to a noted collector in Hamburg, hoping for big money,

who told the seller "No Sir, this is a fake" - so it was sold to someone else (fraud no. 2) - and this guy offered it in ebay (was told by me, that its a fake and refused to check = fraud no. 3)

 

best regards

Tom

[fountainbel]

Thank you both for your valued input Tom and Max !

In fact i was nearly sure this was a fake, but seeing the pen featured the telescopic filler i decided to buy it anyway, paid 80€.

Note i forgot to mention that I've also installed the cap rings, these were not there when I've bought the pen.

I also remarked the cap/ barrel threads are not the normal 4 leads 9TPI, but 3 leads 12TPI.

Never the less i decided to keep this pen in my collection, love keeping such a well made "fake".

Max, reading your comment " looks there is a new kid in town", do you think this pen was made recently???

Seeing the condition of the pen and the discoloration of the MOPS star, it looks to me this pen was made along time ago....

Regards,

Francis

[fountainpende]

as Max and Tom already stated ... there are hundreds of vintage pens at Ebay, and we discussed some of them at FPN as well ... most of these vintage pens are obvious fakes ... the new thing about your fake and the fake Max presented seems to be the reasonable quality ...

 

... so we all should be very cautious when buying pens ... no matter whether they are new or old

[Maxpens]

I also remarked the cap/ barrel threads are not the normal 4 leads 9TPI, but 3 leads 12TPI.

Max, reading your comment " looks there is a new kid in town", do you think this pen was made recently???

Seeing the condition of the pen and the discoloration of the MOPS star, it looks to me this pen was made along time ago....

Regards,

Francis

 

 

Hi Francis,

 

So you adjusted a nib, feed, clip and cap band. The result is now good, but at the end not an original made by MB pen. Regarding the age; MOP stars are made only for Editons of MB maybe since 15 years ago. So you have the answer if the pen is an early made copy. MB never used MOP for the star in the past from 1920 to 1990.

 

kind regards

 

Max

[yus2001fr]

Thanks for all information about those fake vintages !

 

I will be more careful on ebay with the old spareparts.

 

@ Francis : I hope see this amazing pen at the next meeting.