Hints And Suggestions On My Cursive

April 22, 2013

Hi All,

I'm a first time poster. I'm in my mid 20s, and was taught cursive in school. I started off with fountain pens (Hero), gradually using roller/ball pens, until I re-discovered Fountain pens a couple of years ago.

I'd really appreciate if someone can help me out with my cursive. It seems its become an amalgamation of different styles, and now I'm not really sure how to go back to the pure form.

I seem to have trouble connecting letters, and any other comments for improvement would be welcome

The sample is attached for review.

April 22, 2013

Which pure form? There are a lot of them!

Your handwriting is pretty nice as it is. I think it would benefit from the usual starting-to-improve-your-penmanship advice of getting your x-heights, ascenders, and descenders even and finding a consistent slant. That would benefit you regardless of which style you end up pursuing.

April 23, 2013

Which pure form? There are a lot of them!

Your handwriting is pretty nice as it is. I think it would benefit from the usual starting-to-improve-your-penmanship advice of getting your x-heights, ascenders, and descenders even and finding a consistent slant. That would benefit you regardless of which style you end up pursuing.

Sorry for my confusion. I'm not sure which style I follow, I wasn't even aware there are styles in cursive!

By "pure" form I meant proper cursive. I've realized that I started mixing some non-cursive letters when I write, I think I was under the impression I could write faster that way.

I'll search for more resources. Thanks for the reply!

Edited April 23, 2013 by proton007

April 23, 2013

Which pure form? There are a lot of them!

Your handwriting is pretty nice as it is. I think it would benefit from the usual starting-to-improve-your-penmanship advice of getting your x-heights, ascenders, and descenders even and finding a consistent slant. That would benefit you regardless of which style you end up pursuing.

Sorry for my confusion. I'm not sure which style I follow, I wasn't even aware there are styles in cursive!
By "pure" form I meant proper cursive. I've realized that I started mixing some non-cursive letters when I write, I think I was under the impression I could write faster that way.
I'll search for more resources. Thanks for the reply!

I think your handwriting looks to be mostly Palmer method cursive. Where and when did you learn?

April 23, 2013

You cursive is nice to my eye. All of the letters are roughly the same size, spacing looks nice, slant and letter style stay constant as well. Overall I like it. If you want something to improve on the connection with the q in quick seems to be pulling away form the letter and the loop in l is pretty small. Maybe some small other thing but your speed is probably hurting you the most here.

I would not worry about the "pure" form stick with this it looks nice and is legible. Your amalgamation of different styles is just your personality coming though. Hell I mix my cursive and print often.

April 23, 2013

I'd say it is very legible, nice writing. Perhaps the inconsistencies make it appear just a little rushed; see for instance the word 'over'. The relatively short ascenders may contribute to this effect.

Studying a 'pure' cursive can certainly help to clean up your script. If you visit the 'Rare Books' section on www.iampeth.com, you will find books by AN Palmer (The Palmer Method) and Edward C Mills (Modern Business Penmanship). Both provide excellent instructions on posture, grip, motion and the various basic strokes with which the letters are formed.

Whatever you do, make sure your writing stays relaxed, light and fluent. Avoid 'death grip'.

Oh, and should our resident Master Scribe caliken join this thread: listen to him, not me!

April 24, 2013

I'd say it is very legible, nice writing. Perhaps the inconsistencies make it appear just a little rushed; see for instance the word 'over'. The relatively short ascenders may contribute to this effect.

Studying a 'pure' cursive can certainly help to clean up your script. If you visit the 'Rare Books' section on www.iampeth.com, you will find books by AN Palmer (The Palmer Method) and Edward C Mills (Modern Business Penmanship). Both provide excellent instructions on posture, grip, motion and the various basic strokes with which the letters are formed.

Whatever you do, make sure your writing stays relaxed, light and fluent. Avoid 'death grip'.

Oh, and should our resident Master Scribe caliken join this thread: listen to him, not me!

Yeah, its a bit inconsistent. I've been looking at iampeth and really interested in Spencerian style, but I'll also take a look at the books you mentioned.

Also, any pens you'd recommend? I've realized most books/scripts use a very fine nib, looks like its some kind of a flex nib.

I've also posted in the 'Learning Spencerian' thread, but its going slow so far.

April 24, 2013

Also, any pens you'd recommend? I've realized most books/scripts use a very fine nib, looks like its some kind of a flex nib.

Seems like most of the things out there are geared towards using a flex or broad nib, and that can be a bit of a frustration when you're just trying to improve your everyday cursive.

Take a look at Caliken's composite of lettering styles and see what appeals to you. That might be a good start in figuring out what you want to do. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/236695-composite-of-lettering-styles/

Palmer was designed to be monoline, so you could look into that. I personally don't care for the look of Palmer (blasphemy!!)

You might want to look into italic styles. Those can be done in monoline with no problem. Lately I've been working on learning italic and it is very fast to pick up the basics. Believe it or not, this 500 year old book is one of the most useful resources I've found: http://66.147.242.192/~operinan/4/4601/ It has translations and is very easy to follow.

Another option for finding styles and letterforms would be to just type out an alphabet in Word and try different fonts. They're not a real source of instruction, but it's good for ideas. I've found it helpful.

April 24, 2013

Also, any pens you'd recommend? I've realized most books/scripts use a very fine nib, looks like its some kind of a flex nib.
Seems like most of the things out there are geared towards using a flex or broad nib, and that can be a bit of a frustration when you're just trying to improve your everyday cursive.

Take a look at Caliken's composite of lettering styles and see what appeals to you. That might be a good start in figuring out what you want to do. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/236695-composite-of-lettering-styles/

Palmer was designed to be monoline, so you could look into that. I personally don't care for the look of Palmer (blasphemy!!)

You might want to look into italic styles. Those can be done in monoline with no problem. Lately I've been working on learning italic and it is very fast to pick up the basics. Believe it or not, this 500 year old book is one of the most useful resources I've found: http://66.147.242.192/~operinan/4/4601/ It has translations and is very easy to follow.

Another option for finding styles and letterforms would be to just type out an alphabet in Word and try different fonts. They're not a real source of instruction, but it's good for ideas. I've found it helpful.

I just took a look at Caliken's composites , and particularly the "Business Writing" (fourth from top). It seems most suitable for a running hand, and a combination of Palmer/Spencerian styles, which means it can be written with an fine/extra fine regular nib. The focus is more on letter formation and pen movement rather than the calligraphic elements.

Italic looks nice as well, but I wonder if its possible to write it in regular use

Word has some styles, and Google Fonts (http://www.google.com/fonts/) has a lot (100+), some of them are really nice.

After digging through the 'Learning Spencerian' thread, the general recommendation is a G Nib (Nikko/Zebra) + Holder, while some have also recommended using a pencil to learn monoline as long as the pencil has a sharp point(for learning the business hand).

Edited April 24, 2013 by proton007

April 24, 2013

Palmer or Business Writing is probably best done with a fine nib, although it depends on the actual nib (for instance, Japanese nibs tend to be finer than Western nibs) and your writing. If you write large, you may well be able to use a medium nib.

I believe there is a rule of thumb regarding x-height of your letters and appropriate nib width, but I forgot about it.

Best is to visit a store and try a bunch of pens. If you find one you like and are able to use without your letters 'e' turning into blobs of ink, you're probably okay.

April 24, 2013

Italic looks nice as well, but I wonder if its possible to write it in regular use

Yes, definitely! Check out Getty-Dubay.

One of the reasons I am learning italic is so I can produce extremely legible handwriting in less time than it takes to do block capitals. My regular cursive (Zaner-Bloser-ish) is quite legible, but sometimes I want to use something more print-ish, like when labeling something.

One of the things I'm liking a lot about italic styles is that you can take the same basic style and either write it plainly or dress it up all pretty and stuff.

Also, I found this neat pdf comparing 5 styles, including Palmer and Getty-Dubay. http://www.cep.pdx.edu/samples/compare.pdf