Fountain Pen Identification (2Nd Try!)

[BIGEASYPENS]

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I hope I did this right this time! This is the pen I'd like to know more about. 5 1/4" long, sterling silver fluted barrel and cap, slip cap, cartridge pen. I think it's from the 70's. Waterman 750 nib, but no Waterman markings on cap or barrel. Who knows what this is?

 

The section has 3 flat sections and the other side of the section (same side as the feed)is rounded.

Edited March 19, 2013 by BIGEASYPENS

[Eccles]

I don't recognise the body & cap, but the nib and section look like those of the Concord.

The Concord barrel generally has a hexagonal cross section and more tapering shape so this is probably something different.

FPOTW pg 292 pen #10 is not the best illustration and doesn't show the section.

Glenn.

 

PS: I notice that the early Le Man 21 also used that nib & section, if that is any help.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Eccles

[Xof72000]

I do agree with Eccles : strange body to me but definetely a Concord nib and section.

 

Is there something written somewhere on the body or cap ? Any signs ? Hallmarks ? Logo ? ... As far as I know, Waterman was allways writing it's name on the body and cap... :hmm1:

[Ernst Bitterman]

Y'know, if I were going to hang the name 'Cotele' on something made by Waterman, that would DEFINITELY be it. The world is anxious to apply it as a model name, and Google seems to think it means "ribbed, in the manner of corduroy cloth" (something a Francophone could confirm for us). Whether it's actually a model name, or a subset descriptive (like the last word in Parker 75 Thuya or Sheaffer No Nonsense Oldtimer) is a dark mystery, too-- it might be a Waterman Cotele, or it might be a Waterman Wazisname Cotele.

 

...all of which is mad speculation, of course. No data, not even a suggestive reference to something I read once, apart from the mere attempt to link the word and the pen-maker.

[Left FPN]

It's a pity this topic is fragmented...can the mods not combine it into one. :embarrassed_smile:

[BIGEASYPENS]

It's a pity this topic is fragmented...can the mods not combine it into one. :embarrassed_smile:

Thanks. I'm learning.

[BIGEASYPENS]

I don't recognise the body & cap, but the nib and section look like those of the Concord.

The Concord barrel generally has a hexagonal cross section and more tapering shape so this is probably something different.

FPOTW pg 292 pen #10 is not the best illustration and doesn't show the section.

Glenn.

 

PS: I notice that the early Le Man 21 also used that nib & section, if that is any help.

Thank you!

[BIGEASYPENS]

I do agree with Eccles : strange body to me but definetely a Concord nib and section.

 

Is there something written somewhere on the body or cap ? Any signs ? Hallmarks ? Logo ? ... As far as I know, Waterman was allways writing it's name on the body and cap... :hmm1:

Thanks for your reply. It is marked 925 on top of the cap and beneathh that appears to be a tiny hallmark, but I can't make out what is even with a loupe.

[BIGEASYPENS]

Y'know, if I were going to hang the name 'Cotele' on something made by Waterman, that would DEFINITELY be it. The world is anxious to apply it as a model name, and Google seems to think it means "ribbed, in the manner of corduroy cloth" (something a Francophone could confirm for us). Whether it's actually a model name, or a subset descriptive (like the last word in Parker 75 Thuya or Sheaffer No Nonsense Oldtimer) is a dark mystery, too-- it might be a Waterman Cotele, or it might be a Waterman Wazisname Cotele.

 

...all of which is mad speculation, of course. No data, not even a suggestive reference to something I read once, apart from the mere attempt to link the word and the pen-maker.

Thanks!

[BIGEASYPENS]

I've been wrong about this pen not being by Waterman. I took it out this evening and decided to polish it and found a Waterman's imprint on the cap. Now I'm even more curious about what model it is. There sure doesn't seem to be many around. Anybody?

[esteroids]

This is definitely a Concord section. The clip is very un-Waterman. Is that some writing I see on the side of the cap? Could it be one of the store line specials made by Waterman?

[BIGEASYPENS]

You're absolutely right that it's a Concord section. The cap is marked "WATERMAN S" on the second rib to the right of the clip, but a bit below the clip. I'm not at all familiar with the "store line specials". Please enlighten me.

[esteroids]

Pen companies would produce items, based on existing designs, for stores (usually luxury brand stores). Tiffany and Crane's were a couple in this time period.

The reason I brought that up is because of the clip. Pen brands are often identified with their clip style. Modern Watermans have the split clip, and sometimes the goutte style. Store specials I've seen might diverge from that, and come up with their own very different clip.

 

I have also seen that this era was rich for prototypes. But those I've seen look much more identifiable as being in the Waterman style than this deeply godrooned barrel and simple clip. These features strike me as being very traditional and even stodgy for Waterman in the late 1960's - 1970's.

 

Another possibility is that a small pen company used the section, much as Bexley used the Man 1 section.

 

I am absolutely no expert in this area; I'm only spouting unsupported opinion from just this side of complete ignorance. Let's hope we do get an expert to teach us.

[AuroraLeona]

The cap looks slightly like the one on this X-Pen on the Vintage Pens wesbsite.

 

(Picture taken from the site:)

 

http://www.vintagepens.com/images/perm/X-Pen_demo.jpg

[esteroids]

You're absolutely right that it's a Concord section. The cap is marked "WATERMAN S" on the second rib to the right of the clip, but a bit below the clip. I'm not at all familiar with the "store line specials". Please enlighten me.

Is there an apostrophe - WATERMAN'S ? If not, and you hear nothing authoritative, then I suggest you call it a WATERMAN Special until you know better

[BIGEASYPENS]

Thank you, AuroraLeona. The link you sent to the X pen clearly shows a pocket clip on the directions that is almost identical to the clip on my pen.