Flexible Copperplate Fountain Pens?

[nosurlife]

Hi, I've been looking around and I really like the look of copperplate, but unfortunately the only copperplate flex nib pens I could find were dip pens, the problem is you can't really take a dip pen anywhere(and if you do you will need to take a bottle of ink so its not ideal if you need to write something down then move on ). So my question is, are there any flex nib fountain pens (preferably not too expensive)?

 

Thanks in advance,

Nik

[tripcode]

There are indeed flex nib fountain pens, however, you might take a look at the Ackerman Pump Pen, a pen designed to be used with dip nibs, specifically for copperplate and other calligraphic scripts like that. They're somewhere around $25, and you can use India ink in them. Otherwise, your choices are fairly limited. I'll try to enumerate some of the better ones:

 

• Noodler's Konrad, Ahab, or Creaper ($20, $20, $14)
  
• Namiki Falcon ($140?)
  
• Waterman's 52 ($135)
  
• Eversharp Symphony ($68)
  

 

The 52 and Symphony aren't produced anymore, you'll have to look somewhere like Peyton Street Pens for them. The tradeoff for their price is that they're in the vaunted vintage flex category, which indicates that you can expect them to perform better than any modern pen. Having owned both, they're terrific value for money.

 

The Falcon and the Noodler's series are both modern. I heartily prefer the Noodler's series, the Falcon is, to me, overpriced gold for the same performance as Noodler's steel.

 

There are of course more and better options than this, but I tried to keep prices under $150.

[Cognaticrotty]

Osmiroid has a copperplate nib that fits in Esterbrooks...

here is mine.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/rcrott1/IMAG0848_zps6d58b6ec.jpg

[akustyk]

Cognaticrotty is right, a nice flexible nib for an Esterbrook would be an inexpensive entry into flex.

 

In my experience, to do Copperplate, you need not just any flex nib, and not even a nib that flexes a lot. You need a nib that flexes a little, but is capable of very fine lines when unflexed. So look for a vintage flex pen (Waterman 52, Wahl, Swan) that is extra fine or extra extra fine (needlepoint). Otherwise, your lines will be too broad for the subtle line variation required for copperplate, unless you're going to write very large letters.

 

If you want a flex pen, but not necessarily for Copperplate, then a Noodler's flex pen would be really nice.

[Mickey]

Just this Monday, I wrote for about an hour and a half in a coffee shop (Peet's) using a dip pen. Might do it again today, so, it's not impossible. All you need is a little table space. Of course, you need a little table space to write Copperplate. It's not a hand well suited to writing on the run.

 

If you are more generally interested in flexible nib fountain pens, vintage pens are the superior choice.

[andybiotic]

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb345/Andybiotics/P1070925.jpg

[Uncle Red]

Vintage Conklin nibs are also a good choice for Copperplate.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Uncle Red

[DanF]

A Falcon is not a copperplate nib.

 

Dan

[rwilsonedn]

Just this Monday, I wrote for about an hour and a half in a coffee shop (Peet's) using a dip pen. Might do it again today, so, it's not impossible. All you need is a little table space. Of course, you need a little table space to write Copperplate. It's not a hand well suited to writing on the run.

 

If you are more generally interested in flexible nib fountain pens, vintage pens are the superior choice.

+1. At least until you get very good at it, copperplate is not something you will be using to dash off a quick note. It requires time, and space for a flat surface and arm movement. Once you have the few moments of time and the bit of space, a bottle of ink and a bit of cloth to wipe off the nib are no great inconvenience. I think you will find it a lot easier to travel with a dip pen and a bottle of ink (or even better, a traveling inkwell) than to find a vintage pen with a sufficiently fine flexible nib that isn't too delicate to carry and doesn't leak every time you try to pack it from one place to another.

ron

[ever onward]

I just want to note that the letter angle for Copperplate script is about 56 degrees (as I learned it; the range can be from about 52-57 degrees). For a right-handed person, this angle is difficult to write with a straight pen, whether dip or fountain. It's not impossible, at all, but it is difficult. Copperplate is most easily written (for right-handers) with either a dip pen like this

 

 

or a dip nib like this

 

 

so that you don't have to break your wrist to get your letters angled correctly.

 

If you are left handed, though, you're golden. You can easily get the right angle with a straight pen.

 

IMO,

eo

[andybiotic]

 

 

so that you don't have to break your wrist to get your letters angled correctly.

 

 

 

Why do you have to break your wrist when you can simply rotate the paper?! :blink: :roflmho:

Edited March 13, 2013 by andybiotic

[Mickey]

so that you don't have to break your wrist to get your letters angled correctly.

 

 

 

Why do you have to break your wrist when you can simply rotate the paper?! :blink:

 

For fun? I mean, some people take Dennis Rodman seriously.

 

The biggest advantage of oblique holders is being able to lower the angle at which the nib touches the paper. Rolling your wrist counter clockwise will lower it a bit (and reduce the amount you need to turn the paper), but with really sharp points, there's really no substitute for a properly adjusted holder.

[ever onward]

You do slant the paper a little with the 'elbow' pen or nib, but (as I learned) you don't want to use slanted paper as your only means of attaining the correct angle because then you won't be able to "see your writing well well enough to make accurate letters" (Winters 34). The manuals I've read & used have agreed on this point.

 

Again, IMO.

 

best wishes,

eo

 

 

Winters, Eleanor. Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy: A Step-by-Step Manual. Mineola, New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1989.

[rwilsonedn]

Isn't it remarkable, then, that copperplate and its related hands predate the offset holder by so many decades, and that the older practitioners seem to have been better at it ...

ron

[akustyk]

Isn't it remarkable, then, that copperplate and its related hands predate the offset holder by so many decades, and that the older practitioners seem to have been better at it ...

ron

Absolutely! Something similar is true of analog photography. Fewer and fewer people can use film and the darkroom the way people did in the 1930s.

[rwilsonedn]

Isn't it remarkable, then, that copperplate and its related hands predate the offset holder by so many decades, and that the older practitioners seem to have been better at it ...

ron

Absolutely! Something similar is true of analog photography. Fewer and fewer people can use film and the darkroom the way people did in the 1930s.

hmm ... you and I could get into a lot of trouble around here. (I also use '20s to '40s vintage cameras.)

ron

[Mickey]

You do slant the paper a little with the 'elbow' pen or nib, but (as I learned) you don't want to use slanted paper as your only means of attaining the correct angle because then you won't be able to "see your writing well well enough to make accurate letters" (Winters 34). The manuals I've read & used have agreed on this point.

 

Winters, Eleanor. Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy: A Step-by-Step Manual. Mineola, New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1989.

 

Funny, but most of the manuals I've consulted, say nothing of the sort and recommend turning sideways to the desk as one of the accepted methods for doing pointed pen work without a holder. Remember, the lettering, now called Copperplate, was done for many, many years with straight pens, long before oblique holders (and iron pens, for that matter) had been developed. (Spencer wrote Spencerian with a quill and I believe the first patent for an oblique holder dates from the 1820s or there about.) The more compelling arguments in favor of oblique holders, I believe, concern rake angle and nib chatter.

 

It's simply a matter of training the eyes and hands to the configuration. To apply the reason you attribute to Ms. Winters, either the piano or the accordion is wrong headed (likewise the violin and cello). Putting aside one's opinion of polkas and such, the body and mind adapt to variations on a theme with surprising ease.

 

The more important consideration is consistency within a particular regime. One can learn to create attractive and correct letters both 'side-saddle' and in the (now) conventional position with an oblique holder, and employ each method as the situation dictates, provided the paper positioning is consistent within each regime. I would agree, however, that correct lettering would nearly impossible if the paper were positioned willy nilly. That said, I do believe it is easier to learn Copperplate (or Spencerian) with an oblique holder and with the paper in a more or less conventional position.

 

BTW, I have a copy of the Winters book and found it inferior to the materials available gratis on the iampeth site. Also on the iampeth site are videos of absolutely beautiful Copperplate being done with a straight holder AND the paper in the conventional position.

[Mickey]

Isn't it remarkable, then, that copperplate and its related hands predate the offset holder by so many decades, and that the older practitioners seem to have been better at it ...

ron

Absolutely! Something similar is true of analog photography. Fewer and fewer people can use film and the darkroom the way people did in the 1930s.

 

I love the smell of Rodinal in the morning.

[ever onward]

...this angle is difficult...not impossible, at all, but it is difficult to write with a straight pen...

 

IMO,

eo

 

The manuals I've read & used have agreed on this point.

 

Again, IMO.

[akustyk]

Isn't it remarkable, then, that copperplate and its related hands predate the offset holder by so many decades, and that the older practitioners seem to have been better at it ...

ron

Absolutely! Something similar is true of analog photography. Fewer and fewer people can use film and the darkroom the way people did in the 1930s.

 

I love the smell of Rodinal in the morning.

Rodinal! Yeah. My favorite, at least for fast film. Above ISO 400, I go with DD-X or Microdol-X (if don't mind losing a stop).