Ink Bleeding Through Envelope

[schin]

So I would like to make Spencerian calligraphy envelopes for my Christmas cards this year.

 

Unfortunately the paper quality is so poor that the ink just bleeds all over the place especially on the swells when I have to press hard into the paper.

 

I don't think I can replace the envelopes, is there any other way I can overcome this? I have heard of using gum arabic but can I just use it in any ink?

 

Thanks in advance!

[dickydotcom]

Consider writing on labels and putting them on the envelope?

Dick D

[schin]

That would be my absolute last resort.. sigh!

[jbb]

Only if you are using a dip pen can you try gum Arabic -- it will clog a fountain pen. I'm more inclined to think pouncing your envelopes with gum sandarac might help -- also only for dip pen. If the paper is as bad as it sounds you'll probably need to write your addresses on other paper and then glue them on.

Edited December 6, 2012 by jbb

[fiberdrunk]

  On 12/6/2012 at 5:59 PM, schin said:

So I would like to make Spencerian calligraphy envelopes for my Christmas cards this year.

 

Unfortunately the paper quality is so poor that the ink just bleeds all over the place especially on the swells when I have to press hard into the paper.

 

I don't think I can replace the envelopes, is there any other way I can overcome this? I have heard of using gum arabic but can I just use it in any ink?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

What kind of ink are you using? Maybe try an iron gall ink... those are notorious for working well with crummy papers.

[schin]

Yes, I will be using a dip pen so gum arabic and sandarac should be no problem. I will pick some up today and see.

 

I would like to use olive ink with it so maybe I can find some with iron gall in it already.

 

Is it safe to add gum arabic to fountain pen inks for use in dip pens?

[FPFan]

You could get some heavy card stock, cut to the size of your envelope to put in the envelope while writing. When dry pull it out and replace with the card. Just keep repeating the process with each envelope. I'd be sure the ink is dry before pulling out the card stock so you won't get any smears. Reuse the card stock or use one piece for each envelope if that isn't a problem.

 

Good luck and Happy Christmas!

[DanF]

  On 12/6/2012 at 6:56 PM, schin said:

Yes, I will be using a dip pen so gum arabic and sandarac should be no problem. I will pick some up today and see.

 

I would like to use olive ink with it so maybe I can find some with iron gall in it already.

 

Is it safe to add gum arabic to fountain pen inks for use in dip pens?

 

Gum arabic will gum up a fountain pen, use only with dip pens.

 

You won't find an olive iron gall ink, most are black or blue black.

 

Dan

[thang1thang2]

  On 12/6/2012 at 7:12 PM, DanF said:

  On 12/6/2012 at 6:56 PM, schin said:

Is it safe to add gum arabic to fountain pen inks for use in dip pens?

 

Gum arabic will gum up a fountain pen, use only with dip pens.

 

 

You're right. However if he takes his fountain pen ink and doesn't use it (ever again) for a fountain pen and instead adds gum arabic and uses it exclusively for a dip pen, it will work just fine. If you put gum arabic in ink though, forget about putting it into a fountain pen, it will gum it up and jam it.

 

I would recommend just getting a new ink, fun colors are always a cool reason to buy new ink...

[ac3y]

If you're not beholden to using specific envelopes (for reasons of size or consistency w/ cards) and don't have tons of cards to write, you could fold your own envelopes out of suitable paper.

[schin]

Thanks everyone. Don't worry, I am writing these with a dip pen, not a fountain pen.

 

I went to the store yesterday and got olive calligraphy ink and pounce powder and it works great. It requires a lot of powder on the envelopes as they are really bad quality but at least it writes well with very tiny bleeding.

 

Unfortunately now a new problem has cropped up, since I used so much pounce, it picks up so often on the nib that it messes with my hairlines, making me have to clean the nib every few letters! Augh if it't not one thing, it's another!

[jbb]

  On 12/7/2012 at 5:02 PM, schin said:

Thanks everyone. Don't worry, I am writing these with a dip pen, not a fountain pen.

 

I went to the store yesterday and got olive calligraphy ink and pounce powder and it works great. It requires a lot of powder on the envelopes as they are really bad quality but at least it writes well with very tiny bleeding.

 

Unfortunately now a new problem has cropped up, since I used so much pounce, it picks up so often on the nib that it messes with my hairlines, making me have to clean the nib every few letters! Augh if it't not one thing, it's another!

Pounce (at least the gum Sandarac I use) is kind of hard to work with but I love the way it smells.

[schin]

  On 12/7/2012 at 5:18 PM, jbb said:

  On 12/7/2012 at 5:02 PM, schin said:

Thanks everyone. Don't worry, I am writing these with a dip pen, not a fountain pen.

 

I went to the store yesterday and got olive calligraphy ink and pounce powder and it works great. It requires a lot of powder on the envelopes as they are really bad quality but at least it writes well with very tiny bleeding.

 

Unfortunately now a new problem has cropped up, since I used so much pounce, it picks up so often on the nib that it messes with my hairlines, making me have to clean the nib every few letters! Augh if it't not one thing, it's another!

Pounce (at least the gum Sandarac I use) is kind of hard to work with but I love the way it smells.

 

My art shop hasn't even heard of sandarac.

Is it worth buying from johnneal if I already have the pounce?

[jbb]

  On 12/7/2012 at 6:20 PM, schin said:

My art shop hasn't even heard of sandarac.

Is it worth buying from johnneal if I already have the pounce?

I don't know. :hmm1: It helps you get thinner lines and, as I mentioned, smells nice.

[smk]

You are running into a problem many Calligraphers face regularly with paper unsuitable for inking chosen by the clients. I've read of people getting good results from Sumi Ink and in one case when nothing else worked Ziller's Glossy Black ink (sold in powdered form) behaved as if nothing was amiss.

 

Professional Calligraphers need to figure out a solution because they have many many envelopes to do and don't can't change the paper. In your case, since you are only doing a few, the advice to fold your own envelopes seems the best course of action to me, You'll get excellent results and that's what matters in the end. Also, if you do your Calligraphy/Decoration before folding you can do a cool wrap-around design.

 

Salman

[AD356]

  On 12/7/2012 at 5:02 PM, schin said:

I went to the store yesterday and got olive calligraphy ink and pounce powder and it works great.

 

For the most part I found that the inks are just as much to blame as the paper is. What is the name of the Inks you are using? I found some Calligraphy inks needed thickening up just as much as some fountain pen inks.

 

You have to be careful when messing with inks. You can ruin the ink very easily by adding the wrong type of thickener. If you add gum arabic, (Acacia Gum) to inks that are made with Shellac, glue as in Sumi inks or inks with heavy pigment, you might be making things worse. Sometimes the Pigment can bond with the gum arabic pulling it out of the solvent and leaving a very watery mess. With the Shellacs/Glue inks Gum Arabic might not dissolve, but instead clomp up.

 

It does work however for most inks so I would suggest getting a small tester sample and trying different things first.

 

For an easy, and cheap thickening agent try homemade dextrin... baked corn starch, there are many videos on how to make it.

[schin]

Well in this case the calligraphy is for a friend who wants olive green ink. So I couldn't use sumi or anything like that.

I am using the Winsor & Newton calligraphy ink which is thick enough and works fine on these envelopes with a bit of pounce.

 

I do have McCaffery which is supposed to be very good as well. But the cap got stuck with dried ink!! I still haven't figured out how to open it safely

 

This weekend I will do my experimenting with the gum arabic. Thank you for the advice.

[smk]

You might want to give it a go with some Gouache - it needs to be mixed to the consistency of milk and sometimes works where inks fail. You can also add some Gum Arabic to the mixed Gouache to control the flow.

 

As a last resort, try a very thin layer of Acrylic Gesso on the envelope to form a base. Gouache will work this base but inks might not.

 

Another trick you might try is to spray the paper with some cheap hairspray - this also forms a layer on the paper that helps prevent bleeding/feathering. This method is not recommended for artwork since it yellows with time but is quite acceptable for writing addresses on envelopes. Inks work fine on this base.

 

Do let us know what works in the end - and a few pictures will do the curious (me!) good :-)

 

Salman

[AD356]

I agree with SMK Gouache seems like it would work well here. It is not transparent like the W&N but works well all of the time, maybe add a little water.

 

Please let us know how it works out with adding. Gum Arabic to the ink, and good luck.

[jbb]

What size are the envelopes?