Anyone Recognise This Pen From The Clip Design?

[Marlow]

Picked this pen up the other day as part of a lot. The pen is the same length as a Parker Vac oversize and a tad fatter. Nice cross-hatched design. Anyone recognise the clip design? No imprint that I can find on the pen - it has a Warranted 14ct gold nib.

 

http://i49.tinypic.com/2nhj435.jpg

 

Thanks!

[greenapogee]

I have a pen with an identical-looking clip; it's a button filler in black celluloid with a 14k warranted nib, and the imprint reads "The John Bull Pen" on one line, and "SELF FILLING" below it.

 

A rather poor picture follows; sorry, I should probably try and improve my cameramanship at some point

 

http://i.imgur.com/v9WGU.jpg

 

Based on the cap rings and the double jewels, it looks rather like a cheaper version of a Vacumatic Standard, although about 8mm shorter and with slightly poorer quality furniture; the cap rings are slightly uneven in position and thickness(!), and the gold plating doesn't seem very thick. It's a nice little pen, however, with a moderately flexible (if toothy) SF nib.

 

http://i.imgur.com/hwmNQ.jpg

 

Hope that helps a bit!

[kps]

I don't know it, but I think I've seen pictures of that clip in a Pentrace PSF recently.

[Marlow]

Brilliant! Thanks greenapogee! FPN never fails!

 

Hi kps - thanks - will give that link a look through - tad tricky to find stuff there however!

 

[fpman]

I've seen this clip on other brands of pens, all British. I have a couple of Kingswood pens that look very similar (though they're under 5") and a Nova (over 5" but very similar not just in the clip). I've also seen at least one Unique pen with the same clip and look. Onoto, Conway Stewart, Mabie Todd and Curzon/Lang all made pens for multiple pen companies, so that could be the case here, or Kingswood (owned by Parker at one point) could have made them. All the other pens I've seen are lever fillers and had BHR inserts above the clip so it also could be just parts of the pens were made in common.

 

Edited to add that FPN member Red52ripple may know more. She has pictures and information on her blog, Goodwriterperson's blog.

Edited June 22, 2012 by fpman

[Happy Harry]

I lean to Unique based on the clip, it also has a Summit look about the cap and body (as mentioned above Kingswood (an Eversharp brand) carried a similiar clip. I'm not sure but I think Valentine made Kingswoods and Parkers plus ?). Still CS , MT and TDLR are often thought of as supplying John Bull. Still it's possible John Bull sourced parts from several makers and you have a mix.

[red52ripple]

The clip in the OP's photo and on the John Bull seem to be the same but they're different from the Kingswood clip:

 

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb301/scaraben/DSCF3166.jpg

 

Yes, they're both a series of narrowing steps, but the Kingswood has each step outlined by a raised edge. Also, the John Bull clip is gold plated whereas the Kingswood has some "gold-alike" finish.

 

The manufacture of John Bull pens is problematic. One can make a case, based only on resemblance, for some early John Bulls being made by Conway Stewart. Resemblance, however, can be a real red herring. Later John Bulls vary quite a bit in quality and no longer bear any resemblance to Conway Stewart output.

Regards,

[Marlow]

Aha! New and fascinating possibilities, as is so often the case with the sheer depth of knowledge on here! Thanks very much for the thoughtful replies!

 

I will have to post a good pic of the whole pen so that the missing blind cap can be seen clearly! I love this pen for its size, shape and patterning and would dearly love to find a replacement blind cap for it!

 

Learning about fountain pen makers and models is an apprenticeship in itself, let alone the repair and restoration path I've set myself on!! What a delight this hobby / passion is!

 

To be continued!...

 

[greenapogee]

On stepped clips on english-made pens, I also have a BHR button filler pen inscribed "COMMONWEALTH", "BRITISH MADE" which is suffiently cylindrical that it almost looks like a Sheaffer Targa, and also has a stepped clip, although rather than flicking up at the end, it curls around to form a circle where the clip ends. This is a more basic clip than the Kingswood clip pictured above with no detailing on the surface or other decoration, and I think it's just plain brass.

 

I've always assumed this was a coincidence and that this was just a common clip design, rather than that this and the John Bull pen were related? This one came with a replacement nib (from an Onoto pen of some sort, I think), and based on the craftsmanship is definitely a cheaper model of pen (very basic feed with only a single channel and no grooves or fins, rather uneven finish on the cap at both ends - either a very cheap pen, or it snuck past the quality control man!)

 

I can take a picture of this one if anyone's overly interested.

Edited June 23, 2012 by greenapogee

[georges zaslavsky]

pretty interesting pen thanks for sharing

Edited June 23, 2012 by georges zaslavsky

[red52ripple]

On stepped clips on english-made pens, I also have a BHR button filler pen inscribed "COMMONWEALTH", "BRITISH MADE" which is suffiently cylindrical that it almost looks like a Sheaffer Targa, and also has a stepped clip, although rather than flicking up at the end, it curls around to form a circle where the clip ends. This is a more basic clip than the Kingswood clip pictured above with no detailing on the surface or other decoration, and I think it's just plain brass.

 

I've always assumed this was a coincidence and that this was just a common clip design, rather than that this and the John Bull pen were related? This one came with a replacement nib (from an Onoto pen of some sort, I think), and based on the craftsmanship is definitely a cheaper model of pen (very basic feed with only a single channel and no grooves or fins, rather uneven finish on the cap at both ends - either a very cheap pen, or it snuck past the quality control man!)

 

I can take a picture of this one if anyone's overly interested.

 

I'd like to see a photo of that pen, please, greenapogee.

 

It's natural that some clip styles are popular among manufacturers. For instance it would be impossible to list all those that have used some form of the arrow clip. The arrow makes an excellent clip as it reflects the shape of the pen and refers to the fountain pen's antecedents in the quill. It's the same with the stepped clip. It's an expression of the Art Deco style which many manufacturers emulated. Though they're shaped rather differently, Mabie Todd and Platignum also used stepped clips.

 

Regards,

[greenapogee]

I'd like to see a photo of that pen, please, greenapogee.

 

No problem!

 

Here it is in bits. I couldn't find a ruler, so I grabbed the nearest pen to hand to gauge the size!

 

http://i.imgur.com/EtWBp.jpg

 

These two images I think demonstrate amply my comments about manufacturing quality:

 

http://i.imgur.com/BYMfs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cEfud.jpg

 

And because they really do remind me of each other, here it is alongside a Sheaffer Targa:

 

http://i.imgur.com/X8obf.jpg

[saintsimon]

It is a typical clip of the UNIQUE brand, Made in England . I have two of them.

 

The reverse cracked ice one is actually an OEM, showing "Richard - Morges" instead of UNIQUE, but also with "Made in England" engraved below. Richard was a shop in the Swiss town of Morges. I got it from a swiss seller. But apart from the celluloid, it looks like the "John Bull" pen above (was John Bull a manufacturer or is it a custom branded OEM pen?)

 

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/492/uniques01.jpg

 

 

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3424/unique01rl5.jpg

 

Edited June 25, 2012 by saintsimon

[Marlow]

Awesome, thanks guys n gals! I now know what to keep my eyes peeled for!

[red52ripple]

That's very interesting. Stephen Hull mentions a Commonwealth Manufacturing Co. which made (or sold) the Commonwealth Pen in 1947.

 

In reply to saintsimon's question, John Bull didn't manufacture pens but bought them in from other companies. It seems likely that Unique made these John Bull pens.

Regards,