Pilot Custom 742 Or Sailor 1911?

[theblahblah]

I'm looking to buy a new pen and I've narrowed it down to either the pilot custom 742 or sailor 1911 which are just around my budget of > $200. I see that there are hardly any reviews for the normal custom (not flex) 742 nibs so I would appreciate some input on this. Which one should I get if I want a daily writer, based on smoothness of nib, capacity, and size?

[Oranges and Apples]

I do not have a Custom 742 but I would choose the Custom 74 (used to own this) over the Sailor 1911 (I am assuming the midsize) any day solely based on the nib. I find Pilot's nibs the most enjoyable in the fountain pen world. But the Sailor does offer the Zoom nib which is very interesting which provides great line variability and is fun to play around with. The ink capacities are about the equal since they are both cartridge/converter systems. Again, I do not have a Custom 742 so I cannot compare the size.

 

Hope this helps.

[John Cullen]

I love pilot F/M and M nibs so I would recommend the pilot.

 

Sailor makes great pens and most people love them, but I have found their nibs can be a bit fussy about being held on the sweet spot for maximum smoothness. I think Pilot nibs are a little more forgiving if you have, as I do, bad pen posture. Could just be my limited experience.

 

Pilot pens are pretty basic looking and there are not a lot of colors and such, but the nibs are nice.

 

I think you will enjoy whichever one you get.

 

J

[theblahblah]

Thanks! I've been reading reviews and it seems like the Pilot nibs are more consistent out of the box? This is important for me as I would hate to spend extra cash to get it adjusted. Just to clarify, I'm looking at the larger 1911 which would be an upgrade from the current Pelikan M200 I'm using. The size of my M200 is starting to annoy me as it just isn't comfortable for longer writing.

[mhosea]

I really wanted to like Sailor pens. I sort of do. I have 3 Sailors, a 1911 full size with a 21K H-B nib, a 1911 mid-size with a 14K H-M nib, and a Professional Gear with a 21K NMF (Naginata Togi MF). None are really "smooth" in the sense that my Binderized nibs (various) are smooth. The Naginata Togi is the most interesting by far. It gives a gentle feedback that reminds me of a felt-tip pen but without the variable friction that felt-tip pens have. It's really just a gentle awareness of the texture of the paper. It's easy to say this is a positive thing, but on the flip side I can't call it smooth, exactly. The H-M is OK. The H-B I sent to Richard Binder (before he just recently stopped accepting such things) to be Binderized and hope to see it back in 4-5 months or so. I felt like the Sailor H-B nib should be really smooth, and it just wasn't.

 

My Pilots have been a Namiki Falcon S-F, a Namiki Falcon S-M (Binderized), and a Custom 91 Yama Budo with the H-FM nib. The Binderized S-M is by far the smoothest-writing pen I own. The stock S-F nib is too fine for me (a bit scratchy, I would say, I think only because of its fineness, but I could be wrong). The H-FM nib was pretty smooth for such a fine nib (about the same width as the Namiki Falcon S-F, I think). My only complaint with it was that it was rather dry on the up-stroke. My son has a Custom 74 with S-M nib that is really nice.

 

So I'm going to go with Pilot here.

Edited March 16, 2012 by mhosea

[Jezza]

Well, I'll have to post some pics, but I think this is a tough call. I have both. I'd be hard pressed to call the Pilot nib a better performer. While it is true that a Pilot fine is usually a little smoother than a Sailor fine, keep in mind the Pilot fine is also appreceably (ie you can easily see the difference with the naked eye) larger than the Sailor for any given nib width. All things being equal, a larger nib surface is typically smoother. Pilot feeds/nibs also tend to be a lot more stingy with ink. The exceptions would be the "soft" nibs, which seem to have great flow.

[Jezza]

Rainy weather here in San Diego, so nothing better to do than take some mediocre pictures and post them, as promised, to illustrate some of the differences between the Pilot Custom 742 and the Sailor 1911 large. This is not intended as a competition between these pens, and while I may point out some of the differences and offer my personal opinion as to which features I prefer, it goes without saying both pens are excellent (after all, I own both).

 

I cannot offer you a perfect comparison, because I do not own a large Sailor 1911. However, I do have a 1911 Realo, which is the same shape, size (or very, very close) and has the exact same nib. I also have a Sailor Professional Gear, which I will use to illustrate the differences between the section of the 1911 and the Custom 742 (the Professional Gear and 1911 have the exact same section). Finally, I've thrown some pics of a 1911m into the mix, just so you could see the difference in size. Note: the color of the 1911m burgundy is much darker than the color of the 1911 Realo burgundy. It is not a trick of the lighting or photography.

 

Here's a shot of all four pens together, from left to right: Sailor 1911m, Sailor Professional Gear, Sailor 1911 Realo, and the Pilot Custom 742. Sorry, this is a slightly blurry picture.

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/ramasesii2000/IMG_0020.jpg

 

All four pens post very securely with virtually no visible marks on the end of the barrel. Here's another picture of these pens together, this time capped. From top to bottom: Sailor 1911m, Pilot Custom 742, Sailor Professional Gear, Sailor Realo 1911.

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/ramasesii2000/IMG_0007-1.jpg

 

I do not see any discernible difference--or feel one--between the quality of the plastic used to make these two pens. Neither seems more flimsy or prone to scratching than the other. Both pens have solid clips, and they are both affixed to the cap in the same manner (i.e. washer clip style). Looking at them from the side, both clips seem to be of identical construction:

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/ramasesii2000/IMG_0017-1.jpg

 

However, at a slight angle, you can see the Sailor clip is actually a thinner sheet of metal that has been folded at the sides to appear thicker:

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/ramasesii2000/IMG_0014-2.jpg

 

This is very common, and there's nothing particularly wrong with it. Pilot, on the other hand, uses a slightly thicker sheet of metal, but without folding:

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/ramasesii2000/IMG_0015-1.jpg

 

I prefer the Pilot method of construction, because it would seem to yield a slightly stronger clip. As a practical matter, both clips are more than sufficient for daily use.

 

Both caps also have trim rings displaying the brand name, and model:

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/ramasesii2000/IMG_0018-1.jpg

 

When it comes to plated pot metal trim, I actually think less is more. However, if the trim is going to be there, it should at least look good. In the picture above, Sailor seems to do a better job. The engraving on the Pilot trim is small, shallow, and does not match the price of the pen. Conversely, the trim on the Sailor has a better "gold" color, and the engraving is deeper, easier to read, and just plain looks better.

 

Of course, the nib is the most important part of the pen. All of these pens have excellent nibs. From left to right: Sailor Professional Gear F, Sailor Realo 1911 F, Pilot Custom 742 F, Sailor 1911m M.

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/ramasesii2000/IMG_0008-1.jpg

 

I also took a picture of just the Professional Gear and Pilot Custom 742 nibs together. As I mentioned previously, I'm using the Professional Gear section because I do not own a large 1911. Nevertheless, the sections of the pens are identical, as are the nibs.

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/ramasesii2000/IMG_0012-2.jpg

 

The Sailor nib is slightly larger, and is made from 21k gold. The Pilot Custom 742 uses a #10 Pilot nib in 14k gold. I do not believe a higher karat count results in a superior nib. Also, it should be noted that all Sailor nibs have approximately the same level of flexibility--or inflexibility, to be more exact. The higher gold content means Sailor must produce a fairly rigid nib, or the tines would likely bend out of shape with pressure and not return. Pilot, on the other hand, produces its #10 nibs in multiple nib widths/shapes AND three levels of flexibility: regular (such as the nib in this picture), soft (fine, fine medium, and medium), and flexible (the Falcon nib, which is a fine nib width only).

 

Both of these pens are cartridge/converter fillers. While I did not take a picture of the converters, the Pilot CON 70 converter is much larger and intricate than the Sailor. Sailor has a slightly heavier section, though. As you can see in this picture, the Sailor section (on the left) is much thicker than the Pilot section.

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/ramasesii2000/IMG_0011.jpg

 

This moves the Sailor's center of balance towards the nib, and adds some weight to an otherwise light pen. I also noticed Sailor tends to plate the section to match the trim. There's zero practical impact to doing this, but I appreciate the attention to detail--especially details that aren't even visible unless one disassembles the pen.

 

I hope this has been of some help. Both the Sailor 1911/Professional Gear and the Pilot Custom 742 are great pens. Let us know which one you get.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Jezza

[langere]

Wow! This is great! Thanks for spending all this effort to make this comparison, Jezza! Very useful.

 

Erick

[theblahblah]

Thanks for the very useful comparison! I'm going to go for the Pilot since it's very slightly cheaper and because of it's larger ink capacity.

[JustinJ]

Jezza,

 

Thanks for the comparison of the two pens. The pictures were excellent and the descriptions very helpful.

[Pen2009]

Both Pilot 742 and Sailor 1911 Large are good pens. The Con 70 converter is superior to the one in Sailor, however.

[Garageboy]

Awesome, how do the nibs feel (smoothness/feedback)?

 

I think the Sailor might have the stronger clip (bent edges increase moment of inertia and resists bending, but both are going to break at the washer fold over point first)

[Jezza]

Awesome, how do the nibs feel (smoothness/feedback)?

 

I think the Sailor might have the stronger clip (bent edges increase moment of inertia and resists bending, but both are going to break at the washer fold over point first)

 

Out of the box, both of my large Sailor 1911/Pro Gear 21k Fine nibs were extremely smooth, rigid, and had excellent flow. I also have two Pilot #10 fine nibs, and they are smooth, but have slightly less flow. To some extent, this is a comparison of apples and oranges, because the Sailor fine has a much narrower tip. Even so, I didn't really see that the Pilot nibs had an appreceable advantage. If you prefer to fill your pen with a cartridge, or refill used cartridges, then both pens are pretty equal. However, if you fill your pens from a bottle, the CON 70 converter that Pilot uses is vastly superior. The large Sailors typically cost slightly more than the 742's or the 912's. In that regard, the Pilots might be a better deal, because I don't think the performance difference equals the price difference.