The Beauty Of A Great Flexible Nib - Part 2

[Mauricio]

I have been putitng together some of the knowledge I have been gaining from extensive use of all types of flexible nibs. Sharing with the fountain pen community and with a special dedication to those lovers of flexible nibs. A lof of observations are and will be made about flexible nibs, including the discussion of some myths about flex nibs. This may turn into a series on flex nibs.

 

Part 1 was about "VERY FLEXIBLE AND ULTRA SMOOTH NIBS, CAPABLE OF WRITING AT ANY SPEED" and addressed the big myth that all flexible nibs are only good for extremely slow writing and only for those with a very light hand and/or professional calligraphers. There are phenomenal flexible nibs out there, including many that are capable to write at any speed whe no pressure is applied. They range from slight flex to wet noodlers. The degree of flexibility is irrelevant. How those nibs were made is what really makes the difference. Here's a direct link to that thread .... THE BEAUTY OF A GREAT FLEXIBLE NIB - PART 1.

 

I have just finished the first draft for Part 2, which is called "HIGH PERFORMANCE FLEXIBLE WRITING" in which I thoroughly elaborate on the six attributes to attain high performance flexible writing. The last attribute, called "flexy writing skills" exemplifies how to learn and enhance handwriting with a very basic approach, looking forward to invest the time into this endeavor. I will still make revisions to this draft and add missing pictures. Once finalized, I will post the entire report in this same thread. Here's the direct link to the draft for Part 2 ....

THE BEAUTY OF A GREAT FLEXIBLE NIB - PART 2

 

For Part 3 ... my thoughts at the moment are to display the process of learning or enhancing a new handwriting method. I have just started learning very soft handwriting (barely touching the paper) with ultra flex and ultra thin nibs. Well, what a better opportunity of documenting the very beginnings and the steps to get to the final results. What do you think?

 

Enjoy this information on flexible nibs and ....

 

Happy Thanksgiving Day to everyone!

Edited November 25, 2011 by Mauricio

[USMCMom]

Thank you, Mauricio!! I am one who has their flex writing training wheels on. Well ... that's only partially true. Truth is, my training wheels have training wheels. I'm trying and practice as often as I'm able to. Improvement has been made, because I have progressed from horrendous to terrible. Next step will will "ugly", then ... onward to "hey, that looks a little better"! LOL

 

I visit your website often, reading and re-reading. You're the one who got me hooked on flex nibs and inks that offer beautiful shading. One day ... I won't be too embarrassed to show you how far I've come. Well, that's the plan, anyway.

 

Again, thank you!!

[blemt]

Thank you! I freely confess to being a ham fisted writer. I'm cautious about using true flex nibs for just that reason. This is some great information and gives me food for thought and practice!

[olivier78860]

http://i.imgur.com/3YrSL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oGfF1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/c0PZC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iL1zU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nNb7M.jpg

NB: My Swan 1500 is out for body restoration, so it won't get any bigger than this, this time

http://i.imgur.com/MkDuj.jpg

[andybiotic]

Hi Mauricio

Thanks for the article, I really enjoyed it.

 

However, I do wish you can talk a little more about inks. I agree that Diamine is good for flexy writing but all the ones I have are too sticky and stains the pen. It take numerous rinsing with ammonia and water to get it out... The writing sample in my signature is written with a mixed ink composed of Diamine Imperial blue, Parker Quink and Waterman Black. Although I love the colour (took me quite a while to get the shades right), I am not using it anymore because it stains everything it touches...

 

Interestingly, I found that Lamy blue (though a bit boring) is quite a nice flexy writing ink. It is thick and able lay a thick wet line when flexing with a superflex and doesn't carry over from thick to thin line transitions.

 

Of all the inks I've tried, I think the particular colours of J. herbin and Mont Blanc are the worst flexy writing inks... rail-roading even with a semi-flex nib. Although i could just be that the nib feed setting is not correct, like you said in your article....

 

What other ink brands would you recommend?

 

As for paper... I don't know if this has been talked about before, but does anyone notice that the two sides of Rodia paper is not exactly the same? One side is definitely smoother than the other... that is why I like Clairfonteins a bit better...

 

Strangely, the more I use flexible nibs, the more I tend towards dip nibs, may be because all the flexy nibs I can afford (and I did spend quite a bit for some...) never quite satisfy my criteria... the lines are either not thin enough or that the returning line variation (the thin line immediately after the thick line) is too fat... or just simply it is not flexible enough... Those are things that can not be improved by pen settings... The really good ones, ones that resembles dip nibs, like the ones you have, are simply out of my budget (for now!), although I truly appreciate and understand that they absolutely worth the price...

 

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb345/Andybiotics/IMAG0443.jpg

Edited November 25, 2011 by andybiotic

[Mauricio]

Thank you, Mauricio!! I am one who has their flex writing training wheels on. Well ... that's only partially true. Truth is, my training wheels have training wheels. I'm trying and practice as often as I'm able to. Improvement has been made, because I have progressed from horrendous to terrible. Next step will will "ugly", then ... onward to "hey, that looks a little better"! LOL

 

I visit your website often, reading and re-reading. You're the one who got me hooked on flex nibs and inks that offer beautiful shading. One day ... I won't be too embarrassed to show you how far I've come. Well, that's the plan, anyway.

 

Again, thank you!!

 

USMCMom,

I am 100% certain you can do it. Look forward to seeing you again next year at the pen show and seeing your progress. And remember: You can do it!

 

Thank you! I freely confess to being a ham fisted writer. I'm cautious about using true flex nibs for just that reason. This is some great information and gives me food for thought and practice!

 

blemt ... Thanks. Let's learn that very soft writing together. Are you ready?

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/3YrSL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oGfF1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/c0PZC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iL1zU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nNb7M.jpg

NB: My Swan 1500 is out for body restoration, so it won't get any bigger than this, this time

http://i.imgur.com/MkDuj.jpg

 

Olivier,

 

Thanks for your kind words. Amazing displays of your flexy writing skills above. Look forward to your further contributions as well.

 

 

Hi Mauricio

Thanks for the article, I really enjoyed it.

 

However, I do wish you can talk a little more about inks. I agree that Diamine is good for flexy writing but all the ones I have are too sticky and stains the pen. It take numerous rinsing with ammonia and water to get it out... The writing sample in my signature is written with a mixed ink composed of Diamine Imperial blue, Parker Quink and Waterman Black. Although I love the colour (took me quite a while to get the shades right), I am not using it anymore because it stains everything it touches...

 

Interestingly, I found that Lamy blue (though a bit boring) is quite a nice flexy writing ink. It is thick and able lay a thick wet line when flexing with a superflex and doesn't carry over from thick to think line transitions.

 

Of all the inks I've tried, I think the particular colours of J. herbin and Mont Blanc are the worst flexy writing inks... rail roading even with a semi-flex nib. Although i could just be that the nib feed setting is not correct, like you said in your article....

 

What other ink brands would you recommend?

 

As for paper... I don't know if this has been talked about before, but does anyone notice that the two sides of Rodia paper is not exactly the same? One side is definitely smoother than the other... that is why I like Clairfonteins a bit better...

 

Strangely, the more I use flexible nibs, the more I tend towards dip nibs, may be because all the flexy nibs I can afford (and I did spend quite a bit for some...) never quite satisfy my criteria... the lines are either not thin enough or that the returing line variation (the thin line immedately after the thick line) is too fat... or just simply it is not flexible enough... Those are things that can not be improved by pen settings... The really good ones, ones that resembles dip nibs, like the ones you have, are simply out of my budget (for now!), although I truely appreciate and understand that they absolutely worth the price...

 

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb345/Andybiotics/IMAG0443.jpg

 

Andybiotic,

 

Thanks for your kind reply. Love your handwriting. Your capital "A" in your user name is just terrific.

 

I have not experienced any significant issues with inks. Most inks in the marketplace behave extremely well with most pens. As mentioned in my draft, I make reference to the issues I have found with ink and flexible nibs. They have been related to clogging, pens that have not seen a healthy dose of flushing and pens that have been left inked and unused for very long periods of time. Have never experienced sticking and staining issues out of my Diamine inks. However, I have not tried all colors. Do you think your inks may be contaminated or compromised? Have you disassembled and cleaned your pens? Perhaps there may be some old residues inside your pens that may be compromising any ink you fill in your pens.

 

I have Lamy Turquoise ink and have used it quite a bit with vintage pens with firm nibs, always getting great performance. Have not tried it with flex nibs so far. I am sure other members here have used Lamy inks with flexible nibs.

 

I have had great results with flex nibs and multiple colors in the following ink brands: J. Herbin, Waterman, Parker, Sheaffer, Aurora, Montblanc, Noodlers and Private Reserve. The Noodlers and Private Reserve I have used have magnificent colors and wonderful shading, but they seem to take longer to dry out than the other brands. I still use them quite a bit. Have yet to try Iroshizuku and Rohrer & Klinger inks with my flex nibs as I have limited their use to firm nibs so far ... and love them!

 

I try not to write in the back of Rhodia paper as most of my writings are done with nibs that lay lots of ink on paper as they seem to show though, at least some, in the other side of the paper. Glad to hear Clerefontaine has worked well for you.

 

There are some great dip nibs out there and at very affordable prices. Once I learn how to write with a very light hand with ultra flex and ultra thin nibs I will feel more confortable playing with dip nibs again. Since my hand has leaned towards the heavier side, writing with dip nibs has been hard for me. I seem to catch all the fibers of the paper, which I am sure is related to inadequate use (to much pressure applied when wriiting).

 

Thanks again for all the tremendous contributions you make to this forum. Greatly appreciate you!

Edited November 25, 2011 by Mauricio

[DanF]

Mauricio---Have you tried one of the offset (oblique) pen holders? They make using the flexy dip nibs much easier, though one still needs a light touch.

http://www.iampeth.c...ing_oblique.pdf

 

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2011 by DanF

[Bo Bo Olson]

Sit at the foot of the master.

 

Lots copied to the Pen File.

 

The things one can learn....Lamy Blue .

 

I have semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' nibs. I now have two easy full flex Degussa nibbed pens working. I don't have the hand for them.

 

I've said always, one needs a hand for flexible writing.

 

At my level I do draw the letters, the few times I do touch a flexible pen.

Practice makes perfect....and practice is a dirty word. :embarrassed_smile: It rhymes with work.

 

 

I finally got some paper. :bonk:

 

Well with two easy full flex pens working it's time I started learning a hand. They do write fancy even with out working the nib.

The stiff nibbed calligraphy book sits with cobwebbed pages on my desk.

I know the styles are different, but a hand once trained can be trained easier for other writing styles.

 

Me and dip pens are still not on speaking terms.... With fire, tongue's lick and lack of polish; fancy calligraphy ink, and this and that paper...my dip pens ignore me like Wall Street workers ignore a pan handler.

[Mauricio]

Dan,

 

I have an offset (oblique) nib holder, but have not used it. It is great news to hear they make it easier to use the dips nibs. Will certainly start using it as soon as my hand gets off the training wheels. That's a great tip and I appreciate it

 

 

Practice makes perfect....and practice is a dirty word. :embarrassed_smile: It rhymes with work.

 

 

BoBo,

 

Thanks for your kind words and telling us about the Lamy Blue ink. Very happy to see you have made that leap and started "learning a hand"

Remember: "Where there is a will, there is a way." I am sure that with all the new discoveries you will be making with your new paper types, you will not see it as work but "fun to play with."

[Mauricio]

The draft on performance flex has been updated and most pictures have been added as well. Not the final product yet, but almost there!

 

The pictures below have been included in the report. They illustrate the big difference between a real flexible nib and one that is ... not a truly flexible nib really.

Both nibs were pressed to the near maximum they can handle without damage. Please do not push your nibs like this if you do not know what you are doing. It's not worth to damage a nib just to see its maximum capabilities.

 

This first two pictures are from a vintage Esterbrook 9128 extra fine, made of steel. The Esterbrook pen company labeled and sold those nibs as "flexible" many decades ago.

When pressed hard, the nib will barely arch its tines. What you see is those two rigid steeel tines spreading out line the blades in a pair of scissors, but firmly, not true elasticity and flexibility in those tines. You will also notice a gap starting to develop between the nib and feed (the angle of the picture did not catch that gap here) ... that gap compromises ideal ink flow, turning those nibs into scratchy ones that get lots of railroading when facing inadequate ink flow.

 

 

 

 

And these next two pictures display the contrast to a vintage Waterman Ideal #2 super flex nib made of 14K gold in the 1920s. Notice the magnificent arching in that nib. Most quality vintage flexible nibs will display lots of elasticity and true flexibility when pressed

 

 

 

 

Did you notice the tremendous difference? By the way, that particular Waterman nib is a very friendly nib that will write at any speed when not flexed and at an almost average writing speed with light to moderate pressure applied. It is one of those nibs that is simply ideal for anyone venturing into flexy writing ... or taking flexy writng into very high levels of proficiency. They were made for performance flexible writing back in the golden era of flexible nib and flexible writing.

 

Remember: In flexible writing, the nib is the soul ... and where the action takes place!

 

Enjoy!

[Bo Bo Olson]

That is a beautiful full flex....what is the difference between that and a wet noodle?

[Mauricio]

BoBo,

 

The difference between that "superflex" and a "wet noodle" nib would be the amount of pressure required to spread the tines. The definition of flexibility of a nib in my website is "the level of springiness of the nib tines while applying pressure to the nib. A wet noodle will take less pressure than a superflex nib to spread those tines. Lots of folks confuse line variation with the degree of flexibility of the nib. They are two different attributes of a flexible nib. Line variation is the line range a flexible nib will produce under different degrees of pressure applied

What you see in that picture is arched tines and the nib's highest point in its line variation. In a video of flexy writing you would see the entire range of line variation ... that range of thin to thick lines as different levels of pressure are applied. Unfortunately, photography and video cameras do no catch or measure the amount of pressure applied by the writer to spread the nib tines. Nib flexibility can only be measured by its user ... after lots of practice and handling of many different types of flexible nibs. They are the only way to acquire that skill. This analogy should help distinguish between a nib's flexibility and its line variation.

[MrMGWard]

Remember: In flexible writing, the nib is the soul ... and where the action takes place!

 

I for one will be following this "series" with great anticipation. Thank you Mauricio for making such a great contribution to the (ever growing) flex community. More times than I can count on one hand have I ventured to your website to drool over many of the pens you have posted. I long for the day when my budget will allow me to call some pens of that caliber my own.

 

Thanks go out to Bo Bo Olson, and Andybiotic as well for their recent contributions to various flex related threads on the FPN. I always look forward to a good read when I see one of their posts.

 

Swavey

[Bo Bo Olson]

Swavey I am very flattered. I know only a bit, and am still at the beginning of learning. I was lucky to be living in Germany where nibs with a tad of flexibility lasted a generation or two longer than in the States.

 

Some one here preached the 'mythical' semi-flex of the Pelikan 140, and I was ever so happy the first time I placed a 140 nib to my thumb. So that is what they are talking about...and that before I ran home and inked it.

 

Yes, semi-flex is the road to ruin, but we are all on that road as is...one has the choice of the wild mountain ride of 'flex' or the Autobahn of modern nibs.

On the Autobahn, you really don't need a good cornering car, just one that is good for real high speed (120-140-160 mph) cruising. Both have to be built for their specialty, like a nib.

 

If I can bring some one to the 'mythical' semi-flex I am happy. It's a fun nib. It can be a 'starter' nib for further adventures in fountain pen fun.

 

"""""Nib flexibility can only be measured by its user ... after lots of practice and handling of many different types of flexible nibs. They are the only way to acquire that skill. This analogy should help distinguish between a nib's flexibility and its line variation.""""

 

 

Lets say I have some 18-20 semi-flex nibs. I really don't count and categorize enough.

 

A short while back before doing my paper survey. I thought most of my semi-flex out side of two were 'grouped together'. One was a tad more, or less but not much.

If one wishes, I found more variation than I found before...and that only on half to 1/3 of my semi-flex nibs.

I was using and ending up comparing them.

 

I knew from the start that my maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' nibs had great variation between nibs with in that 'set'. The F-1, F-1 1/4 and F-1 1/2 sets I once used to differentiate between, 'flexi', middle flexi and max flexi...but a flex set under easy full flex/super flex.

 

With all this stuff, one needs the experience to have an idea that no you can not put both hands on your elbow unless you have had an industrial accident. As a noobie, I had a 'flexi' nib and had no idea it was so....and no idea what a semi-flex much less what a 'flexi' nib was.

 

 

I find now, that certain semi-flex nibs that I had 'grouped together' were farther apart than I expected.

 

They are still close enough, but now I got that tad more experience; where is before I had just two 'sets'; close to springy, and semi-flex, I now have more spread in the semi-flex set, should I worry about it.

It is minuscule, but there.

 

Like knowing the difference between a cheap and expensive bottle of dirty tasting sour French Bordeaux wine. Yep, one learns to really like dirty tasting sour wine. Or iodine/seaweed smoked swamp peat single malt from Islay.

If you put your mind to it, minuscule can be big.

 

One is a tad more flexible than the other...and more than likely with in the company brand, also.

 

Having found out what good taste I have, in giving my wife exactly what she wanted for her birthday today, I will show her what great taste she and Mauricio has for mine...some time soon.

 

Gee...I got to start learning to write with a Hand so I can have a better idea to what I need in Wet Noodles.

I can not be ready for a Weak Kneed Wet Noodle....Well, It's time time to get my wet noodle Soennecken repaired...then time to slide into a nib way too good for me. The Weak Kneed Wet Noodle.

 

Got the paper, got the ink....have not got the skill...I'm waiting for my bottle of Get up and Go discipline ...it's in the mail along with a check.

[handwriter]

Mauricio,

Muchas gracias

Some things you wrote in this article I knew but it really helps to see them properly explained; others I ignored entirely, this has been by far the most useful piece of information about flexible nibs I ever read. A great service to us flex seekers.

Again, thank you very much

[Mauricio]

Swavey ... thanks for your comments.

 

Handwriter ... I am indeed flatered by your comments. Glad you found some valuable information about flex nibs in the report.

 

Happy Flexy Writings!

[georges zaslavsky]

outstanding job thanks for sharing

[hughdrbf]

Mauricio,

 

Thank you for taking time to share your knowledge and perspective through that wonderful article. I've read it twice now and plan another read of it later today. Truly exceptional is that you offer so much on both the mechanical/technical side of the writing instrument together with the application and use of them.

 

You end-capped the article with such a perfect topic..."why?". As I read your discussion of the penmanship journey - to enjoy and appreciate improving and making more creative one's handwriting - my inspiration to continue forward with this personal quest was renewed. Heightened, in fact. Thank you.

 

My personal journey is much like that which you described of your own. For me, after three decades of keyboarding as the principle means of non-verbal communication, I found my handwriting to be a very poor public expression of me. After all, our handwriting is a reflection of ourselves, and mine wasn't what I thought it could be. Not trying to change me, just to work on the output mechanism that wasn't taught well in school, and then degraded over time for lack of use and absence of stylistic standards. Bottom line, it didn't matter or interest me until recently.

 

Through the likes of your article and others posted in FPN I am learning and improving toward my goal of better handwriting. In terms of "penmanship" I can say that I'm coming along fairly well wih a long and hugely fun and desirable road ahead. One of the best tools I have are the writing samples you and others post. I print these out as exemplars to follow and try to replicate. Yours are wonderful to find! I have a notebook of your writing examples that I work wih regularly. A few minutes here and there to do one of them two or three times really helps, and it's a great complimentary source to my formal, structured studies of the IAMPETH and Ken Fraser's (caliken) instructional resources and exemplars he posts on FPN.

 

I have you to thank, together with others who contribute here in FPN their writing samples and helpful guidance and commentary: caliken, antoniosz, gclef, smk, soki...so many more. Very much appreciated.

 

Thank you, Mauricio!

 

Hugh