The First Bottle For Skrip

[Roger W.]

The First Bottle for Skrip

 

This is an interesting topic due to the fact that the first bottle of Skrip is not the one most people would have told you it was. You might well be saying “How can this be?” (I’ll not really hope you’re saying “Please tell me more I’m riveted!” – I’ll soldier on all the same). Two reasons actually, it is in Walter Sheaffer’s autobiography My link that the first Skrip failed due to properties which affected it when it came in contact with other inks and they had to buy it all back. Also, there is an early obscure bottle.

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/skriplibrary.jpg

 

 

The Library bottle

 

This bottle is what most people will tell you is the first Skrip bottle. It is within the first decade of Skrip but here is why it is not the first bottle. The design is actually patented - D71,330 and filed April 12, 1926. Therein lies the problem as Skrip is in use from April 10, 1920 according to their trademark filing (which was filed June7, 1920 so they didn’t likely get it wrong). It’s a nice looking bottle but its lack of being squat probably made people feel uncomfortable about actually using it. It is featured in one brochure which is the only documentation we have for it which also dates from late 1926 probably for Christmas sales of that year though the actual brochure is not actually dated (we know that the jade 46 pen featured in the brochure was offered in late 1926 also the design patent is within this range). So the library bottle as it is called in the brochure is not the first bottle.

 

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/Librarybottles.jpg

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/20-04-00%20NGmk.jpg

April 1920 National Geographic - ad courtesy of Mike Kirk

 

The first bottle in ads

 

Maybe we can determine the first bottle from ads. Skrip was first used in April 1920 and thereare lots of Sheaffer ads then. But,”Ink” is only mentioned in one ad in April 1920. Walter’s autobiography has the explanation. The first ink was tested by 200 Sheaffer employees and worked great. The problem being that they used it in pens that had only ever had that ink in it. When the ink was used in other pens that had used other inks the aniline base in these inks would cause the Prussian blue to precipitate and separate. Walter goes onto say that this caused them to “…stop manufacturing writing fluid for over a year…” This is one of those not too defined parts of the autobiography. I think it safe to say they were gearing up for ink/Skrip in April 1920 so they’d been working on it since 1919. They did not advertise Skrip again until April 1924 – so a four year hiatus not one or so!

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/Skrip%20first%20ad.jpg

May 1924 Saturday Evening Post (emphasis of part of the ad)

 

The first ads showing bottles

 

The first bottle shows up in an ad in May 1924. We’ve plenty of these bottles. It is a squat bottle with a wide neck widening to shoulders which are defined by a bead continuing straight down to another bead near the bottom – a well defined space for the label. The bottle has a manufacturing mark of a large H over an A. Well we go off of what we know and that would be Anchor Hocking. Then we do some research, find out we are wrong. This is Hazel-Atlas Glass Company. They were the package glass supplier in the1920’s so it makes sense Sheaffer used them. Their glass is first marked with the H over the A in 1923 which is great for us as it shows any such marked bottle was not the one in use in 1920.

 

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/skrip2ozstd.jpg

Standard 2oz. Skrip bottle

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/skriplibrary2.jpg

H over A in the center (on the library bottle)

 

So are we going to find the first bottle?

 

Walter had recalled all of the first ink so it was likely all of it was destroyed, including bottles, and a new bottle designed when Skrip rolled out again in 1924. Well, maybe I’ve found a 2oz. bottle for the original Skrip. The bottle itself is the same general shape as the 1924 bottle but it does not have the beads nor does it have the H over the A but it is the same general shape and the bottom is otherwise marked in the same fashion “Sheaffer’s Skrip”. It makes sense to me that the first bottle would be simpler in design. So I give you, what I believe, to be the first bottle of Skrip.

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/skripfirstbottle.jpg

The first Skrip bottle

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/skripfirstbottle1.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/skripfirstbottle2.jpg

Probably made by Hazel-Atlas but predating the H over the A only a small mark below the R

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/skripfirstbottle3.jpg

The first bottle next to the standard 2oz.

 

 

Roger W.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Roger W.

[philm]

Roger,

 

Great stuff here. Thank you for all of the research and photos. Something more to look for at antique stores.....

 

Phil

[flighter51]

I have always wondered during what time period skrip came in a black hard rubber bottle with the applied brass Skrip label. If anyone knows I would love to find out?

 

 

fern

[PenTieRun]

Superb post. Very informative reading!

[Roger W.]

I have always wondered during what time period skrip came in a black hard rubber bottle with the applied brass Skrip label. If anyone knows I would love to find out?

 

 

fern

 

Fern;

 

The Safety Skrip Bottle was first advertised in August 1929. The "brass" Skrip label was 14K gold otherwise Skrip was painted on.

 

Roger W.

[Pepin]

interesting information. Edifying as always.

[flighter51]

Thank you for the information on the much later black hard rubber bottle.

 

fern

[DrPJM1]

Thanks for a greatly informative post!

[torstar]

Thank you.

[Delphideo]

Excellent post. Thanks for enlightening us.

[rhr]

So are we going to find the first bottle?

 

Well, maybe I’ve found a 2oz. bottle for the original Skrip. The bottle itself is the same general shape as the 1924 bottle but it does not have the beads nor does it have the H over the A but it is the same general shape and the bottom is otherwise marked in the same fashion "Sheaffer’s Skrip". It makes sense to me that the first bottle would be simpler in design. So I give you, what I believe, to be the first bottle of Skrip.

Roger,

 

Interesting stuff, but I don't think you have convincingly proved your hypotheses that this is indeed "The first Skrip bottle". I think it's still best to leave the question, "So is this the first bottle?", open ended, and to say as you said, "Well, maybe I've found...the original Skrip", and "I believe this to be the first Skrip bottle". The operative words are "maybe" and "believe", and the operative punctuation mark is that crucial question mark.

 

By the way, did you see this ink bottle on Ebay? 170618029301

 

George Kovalenko.

 

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqMOKj0E0+Ft(BJyBNhe-Vd9U!~~_3.JPG

Edited April 9, 2011 by rhr

[Roger W.]

So are we going to find the first bottle?

 

Well, maybe I’ve found a 2oz. bottle for the original Skrip. The bottle itself is the same general shape as the 1924 bottle but it does not have the beads nor does it have the H over the A but it is the same general shape and the bottom is otherwise marked in the same fashion "Sheaffer’s Skrip". It makes sense to me that the first bottle would be simpler in design. So I give you, what I believe, to be the first bottle of Skrip.

Roger,

 

Interesting stuff, but I don't think you have convincingly proved your hypotheses that this is indeed "The first Skrip bottle". I think it's still best to leave the question, "So is this the first bottle?", open ended, and to say as you said, "Well, maybe I've found...the original Skrip", and "I believe this to be the first Skrip bottle". The operative words are "maybe" and "believe", and the operative punctuation mark is that crucial question mark.

 

By the way, did you see this ink bottle on Ebay? 170618029301

 

George Kovalenko.

 

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqMOKj0E0+Ft(BJyBNhe-Vd9U!~~_3.JPG

 

George;

 

Yes, I saw the auction on the library bottle (I didn't want to go that high) but it proved my two bottles are correct - as I believed they were but, mine have no labels. The ad does not show the back where it says Skrip so there was some doubt which this listing conclusively removed.

 

Ultimately, I cannot say that this is conclusively the first style bottle. Perhaps the Sheaffer archives have something but, I doubt it in this case (though I'm hopeful on some other items). As I tried to impart, I believe this is the first bottle but, I've no absolute proof. Without a document showing the bottle or one with an original label with some date on it or a bottle in the archieves specifically labelled - what I present for this bottle is the best anyone can do (it predates the design patent craze Sheaffer went through). Now that I've put it forward maybe others will turn up or be recognized and we'll have more data.

 

Roger W.

[pengoddess]

I've read through Roger's post about the Skrip bottles several times and something just wasn't sitting right. I'm not convinced. I got out my step stool and climbed up to retrieve a couple bottles on a high shelf to take quick phone pics.

 

1. I still think that the Library bottle, sometimes referred to as heart shaped bottle could very well have been the first Skrip that was recalled. The unusual shape would have been more typical for early 1920s and the fact that Sheaffer recalled the ink could account for the rarity of the bottle.

 

2. Next bottle would be the "shouldered" cylindrical bottle Roger pictured from ca. 1924 that usually is found with the green stopper.

 

3. Next was the cylindrical non-shouldered bottle that would have come with a stopper, embossed 102 on bottom (no Skripwell) that Roger thinks may have been the first bottle. I have one of these bottles with same embossing on bottom and also a partial label and cork stopper. The label is ca. 1930s and for practical purposes let's say pre-1934. See same bottle Roger has except with partial label below

 

 

 

 

4. The reason I say pre-1934 is because in this 1934 ad is a similar cylindrical bottle, no Skripwell, but with what appears to be a screw on lid in the picture. (stopper bottles preceded screw on lid bottles) The label in this bottle is if not identical, very similar to the one on the bottle above. I don't have one of the cylindrical style bottles with screw on cap in the ad photo and I don't recall ever seeing this bottle. The 1934 ad showing this bottle is below:

 

 

 

5. To back up the ca. 1930s era yellow and brown label and go forward with evolution of the Skrip bottle, I suspect this would be the next iteration. Same yellow and brown label style, but with a screw on metal lid and a Skripwell inside. This is embossed Sheaffer'S Skrip Pat'd 1759866 (the pat number is well worn, difficult to read & I did not research it, someone else can do that!). No Hazel Atlas maker mark. This label on a Skripwell bottle with screw on cap appears in a 1937 advert

 

 

You'll have to click the one link below to see the advert, FPN says it is too big to open and I don't have much luck getting pics in here correctly to start with!

http://www.pendemonium.com/pics/shf_164.jpg

 

 

It makes some sense that the 3 different bottles with yellow and brown very similar labels would have been chronological - cylindrical with stopper, cylindrical with screw top, skripwell type bottle with screw top. There might have been others with yellow and brown labels in the evolution, these are the only distinct styles I've seen in person or in an ad. I also don't always give full credence to adverts because sometimes an item would be illustrated, but may never have gone into production, definitely advance planning required from the Sheaffer advertising department.

 

It doesn't make sense to me that Sheaffer would introduce a cylindrical bottle with stopper and yellow & brown label as a first bottle, go to the Library bottle and then to the shouldered bottle with ornate label and then revert back to the cylindrical bottle with a screw cap and yellow and brown label again.

 

We may never know for sure, but when the files on Sheaffer Skrip invention are found in the Sheaffer Museum holdings, I'll definitely want to review them!

 

Sam

[Roger W.]

Sam;

 

While I am wrong about this bottle I am glad someone had something on it! Those bottles in the 1930's are fairly scarce and I don't really seek them out but this bottle struck me as different. I'm surprised it doesn't have an identifying mark on the glass as to the maker but, maybe this is common or made by someone other than Hazel-Atlas. I was a bit surprised that the bottle mold did say Sheaffer's Skrip exactly like the 1924 bottle and now I know why. I would predict if a first bottle is found the bottle itself doesn't say skrip anywhere on it in the glass - just on the paper label itself.

 

"It doesn't make sense to me that Sheaffer would introduce a cylindrical bottle with stopper and yellow & brown label as a first bottle, go to the Library bottle and then to the shouldered bottle with ornate label and then revert back to the cylindrical bottle with a screw cap and yellow and brown label again."

 

This is in error due to the library bottle being from 1926 and the yellow and brown label being from the 1930's. So no reversion was made.

 

The library bottle is definantely not the one that was recalled. It is in a 1926/7 brochure and it was design patented in 1926 which is two years after the May 1924 ad showing the squat bottle that we've seen very often. The library bottle is also marked with the H over the A from Hazel-Atlas and they didn't start using this mark until 1923. It received almost no promotion - one brochure only that I know of and no ads in '26 or '27 which one might expect. So its rarity speaks more to it not being promoted and selling few copies rather than placing it as the first bottle.

 

So my order is - (there are ad lead times so the date is to the ad so generally a month can be taken off - Saturday Evening Post lead times from proof ads are only a few weeks whereas Nat.Geo's are longer - these are SEP ads primarily.)

 

1. yet unknown first bottle

2. squat bottle seen in the 1924 ad and still shown in August 1933 - being made concurrently with the safety bottle as with the library bottle being made concurrently.

3. library bottle shown in 1926 (dated from the jade 46 which is late '26) brochure and design patent filed for in April 1926 (rec. Oct. '26).

4. the safety bottle in 1929-1937 (last shown in 1937 - in box sets)

5. Then brown and yellow - first seen October 1933 brochure with what appears a screw top and a stopper bottle in the display piece (the closed bottle is necked below a screw cap and the one pouring ink is clearly not threaded and has a lip at the top). Ad gap from August 1933 - November 1933. So maybe the first couple of months was a stopper then we know a screw cap from October '33 - August '34. (No Sept. '34 ad)

6. Skrip-well "new" in the 1935 catalogue and first advertised in October 1934 (No Sept. '34 ad)

7. ChemOpure first advertised in August 1939 (blue and yellow)

 

While I have missing ads the last ads to the first ads of changes are fairly close.

 

My little find makes more sense now and is late 1933. Thank you Sam, for your valued input and I retract everything about it being the first bottle - I'm only glad this is online and not a book. It is interesting that they went to such a simple design.

 

Roger W.

[rhr]

Like Sam, I also had misgivings about Roger's chronology of Skrip bottles. I have been collecting ink bottles for as long as I have been using fountain pens, since grade school. I have over 800 ink bottles in my collection, as well as around 20 books and many magazines on ink bottle collecting. And one thing that looking at all those bottles and all those pictures of bottles has impressed upon me is the evolution of styles. Usually the progression is from complex design and ornamentation to simpler designs, so the progression from ribbed to plain seems more plausible. Also, when I saw the emboss on the base of that plain-sided bottle, which now turns to be a 1930s Skrip bottle, it just looked wrong for 1920. It looked too modern.

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/skripfirstbottle1.jpg

 

The other thing that "didn't sit right" with me was the demotion of the ink bottle in the May 1924 Saturday Evening Post ad to second place status. Looking at all those bottles and all those pictures of bottles has also taught me that the ribbed-sided ink bottle shape is quintessentially representative of the 1910s and 20s and early 30s. Many of the ink companies of the time used that bottle, including Carter's and Thaddeus Davids, and most of the glass bottle companies included that shape, with slight variations, in their catalogues of bottle types. I have a 1903 Illinois Glass Co. catalogue that shows the type. I personally would be very surprised if the first Skrip ink bottle turned out to be anything other than this bottle, albeit most probably with an earlier version of the Skrip label from 1924. It might even have the same label. Why scrap a good bottle just because the ink inside is bad?

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/Skrip%20first%20ad.jpg

 

The other thing that struck me is the similarity of the shape of the Sheaffer Skrip "Library" bottle to the Waterman's globe-shaped bottle, the first ink bottle to be advertized as one intended to be used with self-filling pens. It seems like Sheaffer might have introduced the "Library" bottle in competition with this bottle type. This picture is courtesy of Max Davis from his http://www.1001inkbottles.com website.

 

http://www.1001inkbottles.com/pics/lb90022.jpg

 

George Kovalenko.

 

Edited April 12, 2011 by rhr

[Roger W.]

Like Sam, I also had misgivings about Roger's chronology of Skrip bottles. I have been collecting ink bottles for as long as I have been using fountain pens, since grade school. I have over 800 ink bottles in my collection, as well as around 20 books and many magazines on ink bottle collecting. And one thing that looking at all those bottles and all those pictures of bottles has impressed upon me is the evolution of styles. Usually the progression is from complex design and ornamentation to simpler designs, so the progression from ribbed to plain seems more plausible. Also, when I saw the emboss on the base of that plain-sided bottle, which now turns to be a 1930s Skrip bottle, it just looked wrong for 1920. It looked too modern.

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/skripfirstbottle1.jpg

 

The other thing that "didn't sit right" with me was the demotion of the ink bottle in the May 1924 Saturday Evening Post ad to second place status. Looking at all those bottles and all those pictures of bottles has also taught me that the ribbed-sided ink bottle shape is quintessentially representative of the 1910s and 20s and early 30s. Many of the ink companies of the time used that bottle, including Carter's and Thaddeus Davids, and most of the glass bottle companies included that shape, with slight variations, in their catalogues of bottle types. I have a 1903 Illinois Glass Co. catalogue that shows the type. I personally would be very surprised if the first Skrip ink bottle turned out to be anything other than this bottle, albeit most probably with an earlier version of the Skrip label from 1924. It might even have the same label. Why scrap a good bottle just because the ink inside is bad?

 

http://www.sheafferflattops.com/images/Skrip%20first%20ad.jpg

 

The other thing that struck me is the similarity of the shape of the Sheaffer Skrip "Library" bottle to the Waterman's globe-shaped bottle, the first ink bottle to be advertized as one intended to be used with self-filling pens. It seems like Sheaffer might have introduced the "Library" bottle in competition with this bottle type. This picture is courtesy of Max Davis from his http://www.1001inkbottles.com website.

 

http://www.1001inkbottles.com/pics/lb90022.jpg

 

George Kovalenko.

 

 

George;

 

I've not studied bottles very much and to me a plain bottle coming before a fancier bottle made sense - happy enough to be wrong on this. The plain bottle was actually only used for a few months in 1933 with a stopper otherwise they are screw tops which would have lead me to the 1930's. Without Sam pointing out her bottle I would have missed it even with a careful search as I relate - it is only in one brochure.

 

The library bottle is clearly 1926 - do you have information on when the Waterman globe shaped bottle was used? From the description of first bottle for self filling pens makes it sound a decade ahead of the library bottle. The library bottle is marked patent applied for and that places it after April 1926.

 

You may very well be right that the first bottle was the same as the '24 bottle, I certainly can not rule it out, though it would not have the H over A as that was in use in 1923 and after (Skrip was introduced in 1920).

 

Roger W.

[rhr]

Roger,

 

The Waterman's globe-shaped bottle was used from the early 1910s, so as you said, a decade ahead of the Library bottle, but then Sheaffer didn't get into inkmaking until their first failed attempt in 1920. But the Waterman's bottle also appears in the 1925 catalogue and later brochures, so definitely during the time of the Library bottle.

 

Also, the first bottle may have been made by a company other than Hazel Atlas.

 

George Kovalenko.

 

Edited April 12, 2011 by rhr

[Roger W.]

Roger,

 

The Waterman's globe-shaped bottle was used from the early 1910s, so as you said, a decade ahead of the Library bottle, but then Sheaffer didn't get into inkmaking until their first failed attempt in 1920. But the Waterman's bottle also appears in the 1925 catalogue and later brochures, so definitely during the time of the Library bottle.

 

Also, the first bottle may have been made by a company other than Hazel Atlas.

 

George Kovalenko.

 

 

George;

 

Of course the first bottle could have been made by someone other the Hazel-Atlas but, then it would not be likely to be shaped as the 1924 bottle. Hazel-Atlas is probably the leading contender though as they were the largest container glass company of the period.

 

So the library bottle could have been put up against the globe bottle. How frequently is the globe bottle found? It is interesting that Sheaffer went to a lot of trouble with the library bottle and then they didn't promote it.

 

Roger W.

[rhr]

Roger,

 

One of my points in an earlier post was that there were many other companies than just Hazel Atlas that made a bottle shaped like the 1924 bottle. Hazel Atlas is still, as you say, the leading contender.

 

Here are two examples of how frequently the globe bottle is found. Max Davis has 3 of the bottles with labels, and it took him all his life to find them. I have 9 of the bottles, only one with a partial label, but it took me 45 years to find my first example, purchased from Dan Reppert, and then it took me another 15 years on Ebay to find the other 8, all slightly different. I have sold only one of them, but it was damaged. I missed out on two in the last few seconds of the auctions, one of them to Max. And I would say the Library bottle is much rarer.

 

George Kovalenko.

 

Edited April 13, 2011 by rhr

[Roger W.]

Roger,

 

One of my points in an earlier post was that there were many other companies than just Hazel Atlas that made a bottle shaped like the 1924 bottle. Hazel Atlas is still, as you say, the leading contender.

 

Here are two examples of how frequently the globe bottle is found. Max Davis has 3 of the bottles with labels, and it took him all his life to find them. I have 9 of the bottles, only one with a partial label, but it took me 45 years to find my first example, purchased from Dan Reppert, and then it took me another 15 years on Ebay to find the other 8, all slightly different. I have sold only one of them, but it was damaged. I missed out on two in the last few seconds of the auctions, one of them to Max. And I would say the Library bottle is much rarer.

 

George Kovalenko.

 

 

I have two of the library bottles and I wouldn't spend the $80 to get the one with the label (just broke right now). I know of a few more...maybe just as rare as the globe bottle and consider the globe bottle got more advertising than the library bottle. I think the public wants squat ink bottle that don't look like they would spill.

 

Granted, we are clearly at square one with the first bottle but, it can't be a H over A marked Hazel- Atlas since they started that in 1923 (that is the right way to state that). Could be Hazel-Atlas not H over A marked or it could be another maker. Could look like the 1924 bottle or could be completely different.

 

Roger W.