Sheaffer flex nibs - a question.

[doctorcornelius]

Folks

 

I recently bought a modern Balance and was surprised by the flexy nib - okay, not a brush, but flexible nonetheless. I was surprised, and delighted, by this because I sort of expect modern pens to have the usual 'nail' type of nib.

 

The Balance I'm talking about has a medium, 14k nib. I then acquired a Cobalt Blue with a broad, 18k 'Feather Touch' which turned out to be... a nail. A big, fat, wet nail at that. The medium, 14k nib is just so much nicer.

 

Anyone know if this is normal - is it what I should have expected (14k being more flexible than 18k - it feels as if it should be the other way round, somehow)?

 

And the follow-up question is this: what Sheaffers have the best flexy nibs? 'COS I WANT ONE!

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

Edited November 6, 2006 by doctorcornelius

[Guest PeteWK]

Hi Nick. You're looking at the wrong company if you really like flexible nibs. Waterman's and Wahl's are much more so. I'd look at a Skyline or Doric with a flexible nib. They're really nice pens. I say that and am an avid Sheaffer collector. I have a couple of flex nibs in 1930 Balance Pens and a couple in the 60s to 70s Imperials. Generally though, Sheaffer made the flex nibs only when a customer ordered one with rare exception. And even as flexible as some of my Sheaffer nibs are, they're nowhere near as flexible as the other marks I've mentioned.

 

PeteWK

[meanwhile]

14K is said to be superior for making flex nibs from - I don't about John Mottishaw, but Richard Binder will only take on 14K nibs for adding flex.

 

However, I'm still surprised to hear that you had a flexy modern Balance. As Peter says, Sheaffer used to do it to special order, but the house style has always been to the rigid side.

 

If you want some flex in a modern pen then it's an option on some Danitrios and found in some other recent Japanese pens.

[David W]

if you like Sheaffer and you like flex then vintage is the route to go... the pens that are fairly common to find with semi-flex nibs are; slim balance pens with "3" or "Junior" nibs, *large* format "Feather touch" pens (large diameter 500 balance through "craftsman" type TD fillers) and inlay nibbed Imperials. All older style Sheaffer nibs (pre-inlay) are purported to have been made in full-flex variants, but those are pretty uncommon (for practical purposes, let's just say rare...). Truly early pens with numbered nibs or "self filler" nibs tend to be (as was common for the times) full flex or at worst solid semi-flex, but those pens aren't terribly easy to come by either.

 

I would have to say my favorite maker is Sheaffer, but I really like flex nibs, so my sole flexy Lifetime (a demi sized jade green flat top) is a real prize, but the most consistantly satisfying (for me at least) pens that fill both criteria are the slim 30s balance pens with either Junior or 3 nibs (I think these tend to have been price stamped from 250 to 350, with the 500 pens being feather touch and 875 and up being lifetime nibbed).

 

All that said, it is certainly easier to find a *truly* flexible Waterman or Wahl than Sheaffer, you may want to try out a few 30s Watermans! They did some great celluloid colors as well.

[doctorcornelius]

Guys

 

Thanks ever so much for your replies. It was a great pleasure reading your comments; and I have learnt a lot in this short exchange. I'm constantly staggered by the wonderful knowledge and expertise freely and generously offered on this board. Perhaps one day I too will be able to give and not just take!

 

I'm such a fan of Sheaffer styling - looks and feel - that I'm always inclined go for their pens, especially the Balances. But the lure of a good flex nib may well take me towards a Waterman or a Wahl, if only for their physical pleasures. Actually, some of the Swans were pretty decent, too.

 

Ah... the hunt for the perfect pen. Hope I never find it!

 

Thanks all,

 

Nick

 

PS If you ever have woodworking problems, please get in touch. I'm your man.

[PenHero]

14K is said to be superior for making flex nibs from - I don't about John Mottishaw, but Richard Binder will only take on 14K nibs for adding flex.

 

However, I'm still surprised to hear that you had a flexy modern Balance. As Peter says, Sheaffer used to do it to special order, but the house style has always been to the rigid side.

 

If you want some flex in a modern pen then it's an option on some Danitrios and found in some other recent Japanese pens.

I'd be very surprised to see any flexible nibs on any modern Sheaffer. I might even go so far as to say they don't exist. A true flexible nib will spread its tines very wide with very light downward pressure and will still put ink on the page, rendering a varying width line. This is not an accident, but a designed feature. It also makes the nib much easier to damage. I'm certain that I have not seen any flex nib offered in any Sheaffer gold nib pen in any of the 1980s-current catalogs that I have.

 

In addition, I would very surprised if there are any true flexible gold nibs being made today. Most so-called flexible gold nibs are actually nibs that bend, but do not flex by spreading tines. This is what a brush does, and why I suspect several Japanese nibs have this feature, given that Japanese calligraphy uses a brush.

 

The reason tine spreading is important is the method used to form letters for western calligraphy. Some letters can only be formed if the nib will vary the line by widening and narrowing. A firm nib can't do this. Many calligraphy kits offer firm italic nibs which can offer 2-way line widths and can simulate varied lines by turning the nib in your hand, but a true flexible nib gets the variation by varying pressure, so the hand stays in the same position in the arc of motion.

 

On another note, gold content is not a determining factor for flexible nibs. There are many common examples of stainless steel true flexible nibs, even made today - Speedball dip pen nibs, for example. Common writing has been turned over to printing and the art of stylish good handwriting is fading away. There are also many Esterbrooks with stainless steel flexible nibs. The metal is not the determining factor - the design is.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

[Michael Wright]

It's only with the greatest trepidation that I'd offer any reservation to a remark by Jim Mamoulides (my penhero!), but I have a Legacy II (one of the copper ones that was being specialed off) which has a fine nib which definitely gives a small amount of line variation with moderate increase or decrease of pressure -- about one full grade of difference, fine to a (generous) medium. Certainly not flex in the vintage sense, but not a nail, either. I've also handled a few Imperials with inlaid nibs which are at least springy, with slight width variation.

 

I also, finally, got an old Sheaffer with a real flex nib: a #3 Self Filler, BCHR, with a fine nib that's flexy by anyone's standards.

 

Best

 

Michael

[antoniosz]

Ahhh... Sheaffer flex - not in modern.

These are perhaps some of the very best nibs that I have tried. :)9 :)9

 

A Saratoga Snorkel with an FF3 nib

 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/f1.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/f2.jpg

 

A Saratoga Snorkel with an FX3

 

http://www.streamload.com/azavalia/FPN/sheaffer-fx3001a.jpg

 

and a sweet little Balance

 

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/azavalia/shfl3.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/azavalia/shfl1.jpg

Edited February 16, 2007 by antoniosz

[PenHero]

It's only with the greatest trepidation that I'd offer any reservation to a remark by Jim Mamoulides (my penhero!), but I have a Legacy II (one of the copper ones that was being specialed off) which has a fine nib which definitely gives a small amount of line variation with moderate increase or decrease of pressure -- about one full grade of difference, fine to a (generous) medium. Certainly not flex in the vintage sense, but not a nail, either. I've also handled a few Imperials with inlaid nibs which are at least springy, with slight width variation.

 

I also, finally, got an old Sheaffer with a real flex nib: a #3 Self Filler, BCHR, with a fine nib that's flexy by anyone's standards.

 

Best

 

Michael

I think what you are seeing is the softness Sheaffer put into the Legacy nib. There is some flex in there, but not what would have been labeled as a flex nib from the 1950s and earlier. I like the feel of the Legacy nib, too. It's one of the best nibs on a modern pen.

 

Certainly there are springy nibs being made today (Pelikan "springs" to mind...), but if one were to pick up a copy of a recent Levenger catalog, one might think any nib that is "soft" is "flexible."

 

I'm certainly not trying to be a curmudgeon... I recommend anyone who is interested in writing with a flexible nib try one on an older pen. Inexpensive Eversharp Skylines and Symphonies and Esterbrooks can be had with them and they are a real joy to write with. Almost no effort and you can write almost like Antonios does in the post above. Such nibs will inspire you to work on your handwriting!

 

One of those nibs on an old gray marbled Estie got me started with pens and calligraphy.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

[Michael Wright]

Yes, indeed, a question of definition, but certainly They Don't Make Them Like They Used To © in the flex department.

 

But since people often ask about flex in modern nibs, I think it's worth distinguishing between springy nibs, which bounce up and down a bit like a car's suspension and which can be quite comfortable, but don't give any real line width variation, and those few moderns which do give a bit of variation, about equal to old time semi-flex.

 

Of course, if you bear down, you'll get a slightly wider line just by impressing the nib into the paper (especially if you write on a yielding surface) -- you can get line variation with a fine BP, by this route. And I've seen really brutal mishandling spread the tines of a modern Waterman. But that is strongly deprecated.

 

Best

 

Michael

 

who wonders if other people find the old Waterman flex nibs a tiny bit needly?

[doctorcornelius]

Dear All

 

Many thanks for all your input on this one.

 

From what's been said (and written - thanks for that wonderful post, Antoniosz!) I must assume that what I have is not, after all, a 'proper' flex nib. However, I must also assume that it is at least 'semi-flex'. Reason is that the tines definitely part a little as I write with it (as witnessed, quite clearly, under magnification) and this produces a noticeable line width variation. Also, it just feels flexible.

 

The worry is that this may not be a real Sheaffer - but then, why rip off a Balance II: surely, if you're going to produce a fake, you'd go the whole hog and fake a Legacy?

 

I'll try to post a picture later.

 

Best regards,

 

Nick

[Guest PeteWK]

Oops, one more thing. I do have a few Hard Rubber Sheaffers from the teens that are every bit as flexible as any Waterman et al. But those nibs are rumored to have been made by an outside contractor rather than Sheaffer. The best of the lot is a self-filling full flex medium. I still use the 31 Doric when I want flex, though. Now THAT'S Flexible!

 

PeteWK

[doctorcornelius]

Hi Pete

 

Thanks for that. Now THAT'S what I'd call 'flex'!

 

I'll try to do a pic of mine tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

 

Nick

[Phthalo]

On another note, gold content is not a determining factor for flexible nibs. There are many common examples of stainless steel true flexible nibs, even made today - Speedball dip pen nibs, for example.

Exactly. While I have a very nice semi-flexible Esterbrook 9128 nib, the best Stainless Steel nib I have belongs to a 1940's Sailor Eyedropper. These wonderfully flexible Shiro nibs are something else.

[David W]

very cool Sailor! are the Sailor "Shiro" nibs stainless, or plated base metal of some sort?

 

The only Japanese white metal nibs I have are a "NEW" which is plated base metal and an Indian Pilot that seems like plated steel (??), the Pilot isn't flexible at all, and the New is barely semi-flex...

[Phthalo]

Perhaps using ‘stainless’ is not correct, however Japanese Shiro nibs were primarily wartime products - and they are all steel. Dr Dutcher has an excellent article about them here.

[Mary P]

Sheaffer made some wonderful flex nibs in the teens and 20s. I've had a number of Sheaffer pens with very flexible nibs. Not all those pens were from the 1920s. I have one Marine Green Balance with a flex nib that would put many Waterman pink nibs to shame. Sheaffer flex nibs are well worth searching out.

 

Over time I've sold all the flex nibs I had collected. I sold them only because I loved playing with them so. I have both arthritis. Playing with flex nibs does my hands no good. I finally decided to sell the pens and remove the temptation.

 

Jim Mamoulides is right. Sheaffer no longer makes flex nibs. However, some of their modern nibs have some spring. My black Balance II has a wonderful nib and if I want to risk hand pain, I can shade my writing. I exercise some self control and no longer use it to do the Spencerian drills in my Mott Media practice books. Maybe I need to gift the workbooks and completely remove the temptation because I have no intention of selling any more Sheaffer Balance pens, vintage or modern.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Mary P

[David W]

Perhaps using ‘stainless’ is not correct, however Japanese Shiro nibs were primarily wartime products - and they are all steel. Dr Dutcher has an excellent article about them here.

 

I beg to differ...the "New" ED pen that I have is clearly a bronze or white metal alloy with what seems to be chrome plating, perhaps *most* "white" nibs from Japan are steel, but certainly not all of them are.

 

Perhaps I am using the term "shiro" too loosely, but my understanding was that all non-gold nibs that were white in color (made either due to wartime metal rationing or cost constraints after the war) were generically refered to as "shiro" (which translation is the term derived from; "white" or "substitution"?)...if on the other hand you define shiro as strictly a steel nib then I apologize for muddying the waters.

[doctorcornelius]

Hi again everyone,

 

Well this has been informative - and a lot of fun. And I think I've learnt something - my Balance does NOT have a flex nib. However, I do think it has an outstanding quality 'normal' nib in that, although it doesn't produce the classic 'flexy' lines, it does produce enough line-width variation to give one's handwriting that little bit of character.

 

Of course, it is still possible, with any old modern 'nail', to produce line-width variation just by 'feathering' the paper (soft at the top of a line, heavy in the middle and soft at the end) - but that would be cheating. This Balance doesn't call for cheating, it just does it on its own. Or am I kidding myself?

 

Whatever this is, it's a terrific quality nib. Good old Sheaffer's. 14k medium. Get hold of one!

 

Cheers all,

 

Nick

 

PS At the risk of driving everyone mad, pics follow in separate posts (I couldn't figure out how to do it in a single one).

[doctorcornelius]

Balance II - showing tine separation (barely 'medium' pressure)