Dating Montblanc 149s

[DKbRS]

  On 10/10/2010 at 5:32 PM, hari317 said:

Some pictures as promised:

 

[...]

 

Regards,

Hari

 

Hari, thanks for posting these great pictures. They are very helpful.

[DKbRS]

Version 1.4

 

Info from Georges re French 18C nibs added.

Info from Barry re plastic feeds added.

Images of early and late plastic feeds added.

 

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss171/DKbRS/Pens/MB149Dating-4.jpg

[DKbRS]

  On 10/10/2010 at 6:26 PM, niksch said:

Rick-

 

You've got a mid to late 1960s 149, and 18C would also be correct for this pen. Your pen is resin, not celluloid.

 

Eric

 

  On 10/10/2010 at 6:20 PM, Rick Krantz said:

Okay, so I picked up a 149 today. Dont ask what I paid... Lol... I tried to use the chart, and I'm stuck... The pen I bought, has a 18c tri color nib, with a lot of flex, the ebonite feed is round, with the cut outs in the front only, the barrel appears to be one piece, the filler appears to have a rounded ring, with black threads. Is there possibility for overlap on the nib? According to the chart, it should have a 14c nib... Very nicely done, very MB newbie friendly. BTW, is this pen considered a celluloid model?

 

Eric, did the tri-color 18Cs extend from the 50s to the end of the 60s, or did they re-appear? Presumably Rick's pen does not have a French market nib?

[jigesh]

Excellent thread! Thanks.

 

Here's 14C MB 149 with two-tone nib and split ebonite feeder and 2-section body (date approx. : mid-'80s):

 

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/jigesh_patel/DSC_3121_2.jpg

 

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/jigesh_patel/DSC_3126_2.jpg

 

Barrel, the lower one for this pen:

 

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/jigesh_patel/DSC_3120_2.jpg

 

 

Here's 14C MB with 3-tone nib, single section barrel, and solid ebonite feeder (date approx. : early '70s):

 

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/jigesh_patel/DSC_3094_2.jpg

 

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/jigesh_patel/DSC_3098_2.jpg

 

Barrel, the upper one for this pen:

 

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/jigesh_patel/DSC_3120_2.jpg

Edited October 10, 2010 by jigesh

[niksch]

I find 18C nibs very regularly on 1960s 149s, so I wouldn't classify them as rare. I've also found tri-color 18C nibs on early 70s 149s...just sold one last week.

 

I'm sure 18C nibs were used on 1950s 149s, but I do not currently have an example of one to show.

 

I have a mint, unused 149 with 14K bi-color nib with a purchase date of 1981, IIRC correctly, so those may have been introduced a little earlier than conventional wisdom would have use believe.

 

For barrel construction, I think there should be a delineation between celluloid and resin. Celluloid was used from the inception of the 149 thru 1960 when resin was introduced. The celluloid body is not a single body like the resin single body. The celluloid 149 has a section that threads into the barrel. The single body 149 would then go from 1960 thru the early 80s, when what you are calling the two section barrel was introduced.

 

I would combine Piston Mechanism with filler threads as there are a couple iterations of piston mechanism. Telecopic filler on the 149 was used from inception thru 1960. The friction fit piston mechanism (resin threads) was used from 1960 thru approximately 1967-68 when the threaded piston mechanism (resin threads) was introduced. I believe the threaded piston mechanism with brass threads was introduced in the mid-80s, and there have been some engineering changes to it that one would not be able to see unless they removed the piston.

Edited October 10, 2010 by niksch

[Lava Fountain]

Greetings All,

 

Apologies if this has been covered already as well if it is obvious but I have a question about the nibs on these 149's in question or debate on varifying the year of production etc, or maybe I am just misinterpreting it all. :|

 

What is the difference or significance between a 18k tri color nib & a nib with the 18c tri color as I have seen these mentioned a few times as well as pix, seems to me that the k would refer to a nib with a different heritage/lineage than one with the c on it.

 

Thx for that.

 

Regards.

Cheers,

LF

[niksch]

"C" was the designation of carat stamped on MB nibs up thru the mid-80s. Around that time, the designator changed to "K". An 18C tri-color nib is much different than an 18K tri-color nib, not only because the 18K is newer, but the 18C has different characteristics...such as flexibility.

 

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:23 PM, Lava Fountain said:

Greetings All,

 

Apologies if this has been covered already as well if it is obvious but I have a question about the nibs on these 149's in question or debate on varifying the year of production etc, or maybe I am just misinterpreting it all. :|

 

What is the difference or significance between a 18k tri color nib & a nib with the 18c tri color as I have seen these mentioned a few times as well as pix, seems to me that the k would refer to a nib with a different heritage/lineage than one with the c on it.

 

Thx for that.

 

Regards.

Cheers,

LF

[Lava Fountain]

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:28 PM, niksch said:

"C" was the designation of carat stamped on MB nibs up thru the mid-80s. Around that time, the designator changed to "K". An 18C tri-color nib is much different than an 18K tri-color nib, not only because the 18K is newer, but the 18C has different characteristics...such as flexibility.

 

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:23 PM, Lava Fountain said:

Greetings All,

 

Apologies if this has been covered already as well if it is obvious but I have a question about the nibs on these 149's in question or debate on varifying the year of production etc, or maybe I am just misinterpreting it all. :|

 

What is the difference or significance between a 18k tri color nib & a nib with the 18c tri color as I have seen these mentioned a few times as well as pix, seems to me that the k would refer to a nib with a different heritage/lineage than one with the c on it.

 

Thx for that.

 

Regards.

Cheers,

LF

 

Hi Niksch,

 

Thx very much for the quick informative reply.

Even with the S/N I supplied MB Germany they were unable to determine an exact date of manufacure as they said in the beginning when they started producing the S/N on the clips they didn't do a good job of cataloguing them so some/many? #'s could have gone astray :| So much for German efficiancy.

There seem to be way too many variables with these FP's as too dating accurately.

 

Thx again.

 

Cheers,

LF

[niksch]

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:42 PM, Lava Fountain said:

There seem to be way too many variables with these FP's as too dating accurately.

 

 

You can get them dated to within a couple years, but probably not to a specific month.

[DKbRS]

Version 1.5

 

Incorporating changes as suggested by niksch re barrel construction and piston mechanism / filler threads.

 

Eric, does this adequately reflect what you were referring to in your post #85?

 

This is rapidly becoming an obsession..............

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss171/DKbRS/Pens/MB149DatingUpdated.jpg

[Rick Krantz]

I'm still impressed with the information available here. Thru what niksch has offered in regards to my recent 149 purchase, and the chart, it appears in fact mine *could* be a 1965-1967 model, probably earlier in that range, due to the flexible 18c nib.

 

I would offer, when looking at Chiltons, I guess my area of collecting, it is not possible to chart production like this, so it is a little fascinating to me. I wish we could tho....

 

Best!

Rick

[Lava Fountain]

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:47 PM, niksch said:

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:42 PM, Lava Fountain said:

There seem to be way too many variables with these FP's as too dating accurately.

 

 

You can get them dated to within a couple years, but probably not to a specific month.

 

Seems you are correct with that, as I can see from the Great chart that the members have worked on & privided & from other info, mine seems to be from around 95/96 +/- a yr or so if all that info is up to date & correct not withstanding any other unforseen variables.

 

Mine has an 18K Tricolor nib with the early plastic horizontal feed and 2 piece section with the brass/threaded mechanism section.

 

So I guess that's about as narrow date wise I can get, but that's all secondary to the fact it is a fantastic beautiful FP!

 

Thx again.

 

Cheers,

LF

[Lava Fountain]

  On 10/11/2010 at 12:37 AM, Lava Fountain said:

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:47 PM, niksch said:

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:42 PM, Lava Fountain said:

There seem to be way too many variables with these FP's as too dating accurately.

 

 

You can get them dated to within a couple years, but probably not to a specific month.

 

Seems you are correct with that, as I can see from the Great chart that the members have worked on & privided & from other info, mine seems to be from around 95/96 +/- a yr or so if all that info is up to date & correct not withstanding any other unforseen variables.

 

Mine has an 18K Tricolor nib with the early plastic horizontal feed and 2 piece section with the brass/threaded mechanism section.

 

So I guess that's about as narrow date wise I can get, but that's all secondary to the fact it is a fantastic beautiful FP!

 

Thx again.

 

Cheers,

LF

 

 

Forgot to add my nib has the wide shoulder profile, Great looking nib btw.

[Lava Fountain]

  On 10/11/2010 at 12:40 AM, Lava Fountain said:

  On 10/11/2010 at 12:37 AM, Lava Fountain said:

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:47 PM, niksch said:

  On 10/10/2010 at 11:42 PM, Lava Fountain said:

There seem to be way too many variables with these FP's as too dating accurately.

 

 

You can get them dated to within a couple years, but probably not to a specific month.

 

Seems you are correct with that, as I can see from the Great chart that the members have worked on & privided & from other info, mine seems to be from around 95/96 +/- a yr or so if all that info is up to date & correct not withstanding any other unforseen variables.

 

Mine has an 18K Tricolor nib with the early plastic horizontal feed and 2 piece section with the brass/threaded mechanism section.

 

So I guess that's about as narrow date wise I can get, but that's all secondary to the fact it is a fantastic beautiful FP!

 

Thx again.

 

Cheers,

LF

 

 

Forgot to add my nib has the wide shoulder profile, Great looking nib btw.

 

Also I'm planning to try & take some good close up pix when I can although I've been saying this for a while now, I still really want & need to do this so it will be done sonner or later :|

[Blade Runner]

Nice work guys!

[FredRydr]

  On 10/10/2010 at 6:20 PM, Rick Krantz said:

Okay, so I picked up a 149 today.

Is it black or the rare bordeaux?

 

Fred

[Rick Krantz]

  On 10/11/2010 at 3:41 AM, FredRydr said:

  On 10/10/2010 at 6:20 PM, Rick Krantz said:

Okay, so I picked up a 149 today.

Is it black or the rare bordeaux?

 

Fred

 

I dunno, what's the difference?

 

Looks black to me...

 

It fills and expels water, so it should function.

[Chris Chalmers]

I have just inked up my 50s 149 that came from Gary Lehrer some time ago - and by this chart it seems it has a later feed - but that may be my ignorance. Here is a photo - it is filled with the new Edelstein Topaz. Comments please!

 

http://dxlab.ky1v.com/zzz/feedtopaz149.jpg

Edited October 11, 2010 by Chris Chalmers

[Barry Gabay]

Good morning Lava, I agree with your dating of your pen at 95-96. I have not come across a three-tone 18K nib with the first-generation plastic feed. Seems as if yours is one of the transitional models which are so interesting because they possess components from two clear and distinguishable periods in 149 production. All of the three-tone 18K nibs I've seen were paired with the second-generation feed. Thanks for introducing us to yet another 149 configuration. My family and I were living out of the country for a year from summer 95-summer 96 and were quite broke. My grant was small, but we had a wonderful year of village life, research, teaching, hard-class travel. I found interesting pens at Turkish & Balkan flea markets that year, but didn't dare enter many nice pen shops for fear of breaking down in tears. Back in the US in the fall of 1996, I snagged a Dumas and was back in the saddle. That was my intro to the second-generation plastic feed.

 

Good morning, Chris, Thanks for the photo of your new late-50s celluloid 149. It has the proper feed. Will you share some examples of your wonderful handwriting with this newest acquisition?

 

Have a great week, Everyone.

Barry

 

Lava: "Seems you are correct with that, as I can see from the Great chart that the members have worked on & privided & from other info, mine seems to be from around 95/96 +/- a yr or so if all that info is up to date & correct not withstanding any other unforseen variables.

 

Mine has an 18K Tricolor nib with the early plastic horizontal feed and 2 piece section with the brass/threaded mechanism section."

[Chris Chalmers]

Just for you Barry........this is a poor rendition dashed off when I was excited about the new inks arriving. I've had this 50s 149 for some time now, and it is keeping my mind occupied whilst I wait for the 149 from Hank and the Hemi from Jamie to arrive this week - not to mention the three italic nibs that Mike is doing on my Verne, Wilde and Dumas! Enjoy!..........and excuse the out of focus pen in the foreground! :embarrassed_smile:

 

http://dxlab.ky1v.com/zzz/topaz3.jpg