Flexible Nibs

[TheSherminator]

This may be a relatively large question to ask of, but I have been able to find little information regarding flexible nibs.

 

I would LOVE to find either a pen or a nib that has considerable flex, which the pen can keep up with the flex on the flow, just for use in spencerian or copperplate style artistic writing... None of my fountain pens are able to do either of the styles; the calligraphy I have pens don't flex, but just have the wide line; and I can't find anywhere to get a pen that CAN flex enough for these styles. However, that may be because I don't know all that much about it..

 

I've tried in the past to use actual dip pens, as some of the nibs do have the flex, but they don't hold enough ink for the job, and are messy and extremely slow, at least to me.

I found the flexible nibs at richard binder's site and other places that can MAKE certain nibs flexible, but they tend to be astronomically expensive for just a nib. I'm sure they ARE hard to make and everything, but I am a college student, and a flexible nib would be great for art projects I do.

 

*I know everyone will say not to get it or use them because they are very hard and need a lot of skill, but I am an artist, and I need to learn to use them for projects I will have coming up in college art classes...*

 

I saw a video on YouTube in which this professional was "test driving" a Swan 4500, which is a brand I have never even heard of, and know nothing about, other than that it is a vintage pen...

I wouldn't necessarily even need one that is THAT flexible, although it would be nice.

 

I'm just wondering if there are any pens out there that have at least moderate flexibility that don't break the bank.... spending a lot on a pen to use every day isn't a problem to me, it's just spending a lot on a single pen or nib that will only be used for certain projects. Perhaps there is no such thing as a reasonably cheap, but quite flexible nib on a pen that can keep up with on flow, but I just wanted to see if anyone here knows of anything.

 

Thanks, BDR.

[jbb]

Next to dip pens, which give the best flex in my opinion, I like some of my vintage Wahl pens. BTW, I add feeds to my dip pens so I don't have to dip quite as often. Also, if you write enough with dip pens you get pretty fast.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4645641789_3cc0be2b67_o.jpg

Edited May 27, 2010 by jbb

[wheezur]

Take a look in the marketplace. There are often vintage pens (Waterman and Wahl and others) with flex nibs for sale.

[AltecGreen]

This is common topic and seems to be very popular of late.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/156113-flexible-nibs/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/155806-flexible-nibs/

 

 

First of all, different people interpret flexible nibs differently. There are modern pens that are "flexible" and some can be used to great effect by the expert hand. i.e. Leigh Reyes and a Nakaya flexible nib. I either own or have tried every modern stock 'flexible' nib and none are really that good for true Spencerian or Copperplate. Many will give line variation and some even have enough spring back for a bit of control.

 

The best bet is still a vintage nib. The problem is that there are nearly countless vintage pen brands that will have the right kind of flexy nib. But even for a given brand and pen model, the nibs were available in both flexible , semi-flex, standard, manifold, etc. forms. So you have to judge on a case by case basis. Typically, pens from the 1920's and 1930's will have a better chance of having a true flexible nib. The other problem is that for Spencerican script, you really want a very fine (hairline) stroke that can broaden to very wide and spring back. Many of vintage nibs have the right flex but the point is a bit too wide to give the right thick-thin contrast.

 

It's not hard finding a vintage pen with the right flex for around $100 as long as you don't care about the brand, aesthetics, etc. The problem with buying such a pen for a novice is that they don't have a good feel for the kind of flex they want and many sellers aren't that much better educated about flex. There are several sellers in the FPN marketplace that often sell flex pens and have fairly accurate descriptions. You can also try dealers of vintage pens like Gary Lehrer (gopens.com). When Gary lists a pen as triple-flexible that pen will have the right kind of flex. However Gary deals in a lot of highly desirable vintage pens and the prices may give many a heart attack. He did have a Waterman pen going for $125 that had a triple-flexible fine in his latest catalogue but these kinds of pens get snapped up within a day of the catalog's release. You can also try David Nishimura (http://www.vintagepens.com/index.shtml) or Roger Cromwell (Penolpoly.com).

 

One can also have a pen modified by a nibmeister for extra flex. I have a hit or miss experience going this route. The nib will have extra flex but modern nibs don't have the long tines to get the right effect. A modified Pilot Falcon seems to work well (http://www.nibs.com/NamikiFalconPage.htm).

 

I did try a new modern nib that has essentially vintage flex this past weekend. It is a Ti nib sourced from Stipula but with different processing than the standard Stipula Ti nibs. These nibs are being used for a new pen line being introduced by Roger Cromwell. I think the website for this new line comes out tomorrow. This nib was very flexy but with the right amount of springback for control. It was very close to a Wahl #7 adjustable nib I had on hand to compare. The only issue I have with this nib is that it is not quite fine enough unflexed.

 

Swan pens were made by Mabie Todd and it is a vintage brand. The Swan 4500 has a 'wet noodle' nib which is extremely flexible but requires skill to control. The pen looks like it is from the 1920's and pens from that era often are quite flexy.

Edited May 28, 2010 by AltecGreen

[ColeWardell]

I'm in the same situation (college student, desiring flex, etc). What I've done is to:

 

a) Spend more time with dip nibs. They're worth the time, and they're not as slow once you get a rhythm going.

Pick up an inexpensive Pelikan 120 from ebay. They're inexpensive, well made, and the nibs are flexible enough to get line variation-- but don't overdo it, they're not a fully "flexible" nib. My dad used one in architecture school, which is how I found out about them.

c) I picked up a Swan pen with a legit flex nib (oh goodness, so nice) for about $40 or $50 in the FPN marketplace.

d) I also picked up a brush pen-- the Pentel pocket brush pen. It uses waterproof ink and provides the same intense line variation as a flex nib. It can do all the same things for art, but isn't designed for writing, so I use my flex nibs mostly for calligraphy these days.

e) I'm also really really intrigued by the Ackerman pump pen, but I've never taken the effort to get one. But if you do, let us know how it goes!

 

Best of luck!

[jszh]

Gopens website also uses "flexible" (like for Swan) and "extra-flexible" (like for Ambassador)in the descriptions. How to grade these three? Is "triple flexible" the most flexible one?

 

 

 

This is common topic and seems to be very popular of late.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/156113-flexible-nibs/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/155806-flexible-nibs/

 

 

First of all, different people interpret flexible nibs differently. There are modern pens that are "flexible" and some can be used to great effect by the expert hand. i.e. Leigh Reyes and a Nakaya flexible nib. I either own or have tried every modern stock 'flexible' nib and none are really that good for true Spencerian or Copperplate. Many will give line variation and some even have enough spring back for a bit of control.

 

The best bet is still a vintage nib. The problem is that there are nearly countless vintage pen brands that will have the right kind of flexy nib. But even for a given brand and pen model, the nibs were available in both flexible , semi-flex, standard, manifold, etc. forms. So you have to judge on a case by case basis. Typically, pens from the 1920's and 1930's will have a better chance of having a true flexible nib. The other problem is that for Spencerican script, you really want a very fine (hairline) stroke that can broaden to very wide and spring back. Many of vintage nibs have the right flex but the point is a bit too wide to give the right thick-thin contrast.

 

It's not hard finding a vintage pen with the right flex for around $100 as long as you don't care about the brand, aesthetics, etc. The problem with buying such a pen for a novice is that they don't have a good feel for the kind of flex they want and many sellers aren't that much better educated about flex. There are several sellers in the FPN marketplace that often sell flex pens and have fairly accurate descriptions. You can also try dealers of vintage pens like Gary Lehrer (gopens.com). When Gary lists a pen as triple-flexible that pen will have the right kind of flex. However Gary deals in a lot of highly desirable vintage pens and the prices may give many a heart attack. He did have a Waterman pen going for $125 that had a triple-flexible fine in his latest catalogue but these kinds of pens get snapped up within a day of the catalog's release. You can also try David Nishimura (http://www.vintagepens.com/index.shtml) or Roger Cromwell (Penolpoly.com).

 

One can also have a pen modified by a nibmeister for extra flex. I have a hit or miss experience going this route. The nib will have extra flex but modern nibs don't have the long tines to get the right effect. A modified Pilot Falcon seems to work well (http://www.nibs.com/NamikiFalconPage.htm).

 

I did try a new modern nib that has essentially vintage flex this past weekend. It is a Ti nib sourced from Stipula but with different processing than the standard Stipula Ti nibs. These nibs are being used for a new pen line being introduced by Roger Cromwell. I think the website for this new line comes out tomorrow. This nib was very flexy but with the right amount of springback for control. It was very close to a Wahl #7 adjustable nib I had on hand to compare. The only issue I have with this nib is that it is not quite fine enough unflexed.

 

Swan pens were made by Mabie Todd and it is a vintage brand. The Swan 4500 has a 'wet noodle' nib which is extremely flexible but requires skill to control. The pen looks like it is from the 1920's and pens from that era often are quite flexy.

[jszh]

The nib sets arrived last Friday just after my friend left. But he will bring them to me next weekend. Can't wait to try them. Thank you.

BTW, how do you add feeds to dip pens?

 

 

Next to dip pens, which give the best flex in my opinion, I like some of my vintage Wahl pens. BTW, I add feeds to my dip pens so I don't have to dip quite as often. Also, if you write enough with dip pens you get pretty fast.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4645641789_3cc0be2b67_o.jpg

Edited May 28, 2010 by jszh

[AltecGreen]

Gopens website also uses "flexible" (like for Swan) and "extra-flexible" (like for Ambassador)in the descriptions. How to grade these three? Is "triple flexible" the most flexible one?

 

 

 

Here's a sample of triple-flexible, extra flexible, and flexible by Gary's standards.

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3311/4646025325_c18510c8d7_b.jpg

 

 

The triple flexible is soft and has great line variation and control. Very easy to use. The extra-flexible has almost as much line variation but is stiffer and requires much more concentration to use. The flexible has decent line variation but is stiffer. Some modern flex nibs come close to the flexible nib here.

Edited May 28, 2010 by AltecGreen

[Bo Bo Olson]

Thank you very much for the picture. It explains so much.

 

I had just lucked into a flexible nib. It was on a pen that I'd bought because it was cracked ice, and I knew the piston would be shot. It was so I never even dipped the pin.

 

In watching my tines spread, with no effort I was ever so happy....I dipped the nib a couple of times and did not get triple flex.....and was disappointed.

 

Now I know, my nib is only Flex grade 1, not flex grade 2 or 3. Another major lesson learned.

[handwriter]

Most times, Gopens specifies "Triple flexible (Copperplate)", so it is obvious it gives the higher flexibility. But note that other sites use just one category, flexible, or two, semiflex and flexible, or semiflex, flexible and extra flexible.

[jbb]

The nib sets arrived last Friday just after my friend left. But he will bring them to me next weekend. Can't wait to try them. Thank you.

BTW, how do you add feeds to dip pens?

I add feeds to dip nibs by fitting them to old fountain pens (you have to get a close fit) or by pressing bees wax into the back of the nib below the breather hole then incising lines in the wax -- like a feed.

[jszh]

Does the wax work as a feed too?

 

 

I add feeds to dip nibs by fitting them to old fountain pens (you have to get a close fit) or by pressing bees wax into the back of the nib below the breather hole then incising lines in the wax -- like a feed.

[jbb]

 

I add feeds to dip nibs by fitting them to old fountain pens (you have to get a close fit) or by pressing bees wax into the back of the nib below the breather hole then incising lines in the wax -- like a feed.

Does the wax work as a feed too?

Yes. Here's a picture of a nib with a wax feed.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4328026978_e4a71eabfc_o.jpg

Edited May 28, 2010 by jbb

[jszh]

 

 

Yes. Here's a picture of a nib with a wax feed.

 

 

 

Thanks for the picture. Looks neat, the wax doesn't drop or move when the nib flexes?

Edited May 28, 2010 by jszh

[jbb]

 

 

Yes. Here's a picture of a nib with a wax feed.

 

 

 

Thanks for the picture. Looks neat, the wax doesn't drop or move when the nib flexes?

No, once it's pressed in it should stay put.

[TheSherminator]

Thanks guys for all of your feedback, especially AltecGreen for the info, advice, and pics; Cole Wadell, a fellow college student who can suggest things that both of us can achieve (haha); and to jbb, especially with the cool idea/practice of creating an easy, changeable, cheap feed for the nibs.

 

Cole, I actually have been looking into brush pens. The night I posted this, actually, was the first time I really considered and researched them. The only thing is, I didn't know they allowed for very much variation, because the only ones I have ever seen and used were felt-tipped and stiff, so they were just good for writing......they couldn't create variation the way a paintbrush can. This is hard, because many of the sites I have visited, it was unclear as to whether the tips of the pens were felts or actual brushes, and totally unclear how stiff they were. So, I was wondering if you have any specific brands or models that you have found to be good, effective, and allow for great variation; and if you have any good sites to get them. I'd realy like to try them out, because they are pretty cheap (compared to a flexible fountain pen), and if they do the job, there's no use on shelling out so much money for a flexible FP. Simply put, I KNOW I won't ever be using a flexible nib every single day, especially since it requires so much concentration and time. I will only be using one for certain projects, and for specific notes, letters, etc., therefore I can't bring myself to spend as much as they cost. So a brush pen seems like it would be the best, for now at least. I may end up really liking the variation and want to use that all the time, but for now, I know I won't.

 

 

I've spent so long trying dip pens, and they just frustrate me bigtime. Because those smaller ones, the ones that are able to go a whole letter without needing dipped, are so sharp that they dig into the paper, or get stuck on it, then snap off and spray bits of ink all over the paper. I've gotten pretty proficient with dip pens in the past, just for regular writing, but I stuck with the sharp, flexible nibs for a while, hoping that maybe I just needed to get the hang of it, but I never was able to get those little things to work on an efficient level. And the larger nibs, they hardly last very long on one dip either, and these are dip nibs with built in brass feeds. They just frustrate me, and are really scratchy. The thing is, even if you have a scratchy fountain pen nib, it can end up being bearable, because it has a constant and adequate flow of ink (or it should, and mine do). They just aren't flexible. Then the dilemma arises: need flexibility for relatively cheap, yet on a fountain pen, to achieve that, the prices are relatively high, sometimes more than I would spend on a whole pen. Either it's the price, or it's a treasure hunt.

 

 

Small question: how flexible is an UNmodified Falcon FP???

 

 

Thanks again, BDR.

[Rose Nibs]

Ah, those pesky dip pens! I am a left-handed overwriter so I can't get much value from the down strokes with flexible nibs, but I've had fun trying. I too have passed up on the dip pens for the reasons you give. As to brush pens, I love them. You can get them in most art supply stores, but they are of limited use for lettering unless your letters are large. They won't ever scratch and sputter but they are never completely under control when you change direction and the fine hairs at the tip bend the other way. I have a collection of old Pentel brush pens and some not so old Pentel Aquash. I think I'll ink one and see if I can still make it do what I want, after a fashion.

I guess the truth is that not many nibs will give you the full flex experience. Brushes will but their flex is different from springy metal.