Questions about a Wahl Doric

[Bryant]

Sorry I have not been in this forum for quite some time, I have been in modern land.

I really want to get a flex nibbed pen, and I was thinking of a Doric.

But I had a few questions.

Did they make this in an over sized pen with nickel trim? And with the adjustable nib? And if so, what do you think this might run? I know prices vary all the time on condition, color and such, but a ball park figure would be great.

Speaking of color, what did these come in?

Does anyone have pictures on hand?

I will be at the LA show, and if I don't get one buy then, I want to have my choice made before I go, or I will lost on pen-land...

Thanks for your help!

Cheers!

Bry

[kushbaby]

With the caveat that I am not a Wahl expert... I have three of these with #7 adjustable nibs - two black celluloid with gold trim (wonderful transparency with a lovely spiral sort of pattern in the light) and one in a reddish color with that hatched sort of pattern that looks a little like the Aida celluloid, but rusty red (I figure Visconti comparisons might work for you ). Both blacks are working, having been restored by Ron Zorn; one of the adjustable nibs is tabbed like the usual ones, and the other is flat like the adjustable nib you see on a Coronet. The red one will be sent to Zorn whenever I get off my duff and get around to it... I've also seen them in Kashmir (not sure of spelling), which is a nice green color (I want one of these), and a sort of subtle marbled black called Burma (I think). Can't remember if I've seen a blue one, but someone who knows a lot more than me will post soon, I figure.

 

I've seen pricing all over the place, so I hesitate to comment extensively, but I was told I got a good deal on the black ones for roughly $180 each. I've seen others go pretty high on the 'bay (not that that means anything..)

 

I love them - you won't be disappointed.

[Wahlnut]

To answer your 2 questions briefly:

1) The Doric Pens did come in Oversized with a #9 or #10 Adjustable nib.

2) The "nickel" trim (actually white gold filled that Wahl-Eversharp called "Platinic", came on the Burma (smoky gray with lighter swirls)

 

As for prices of these rarer Dorics, The going price for ones in excellent condition are running a about $500 and up. Oversized Dorics first generation Dorics with the "nickel trim" are among the rarer pens, and rarity and size are the mightiest combination when price is involved. In the 2nd generation Dorics the "white gold" trim came on the Blue Shell (Sapphire) pen. These were not truly oversized, but the vacuum filler is about 3/8 inch longer than the lever filler and almost long enough to be compared to an oversized length pen.

 

It is late and I am pooped, so this is a quickie, but if more information is desired, let us know.

Syd

[Bryant]

Thanks! Does anyone have any pictures? Or no someone good who has any of these for sale? Or is this an ebay thing?

[AltecGreen]

Thanks! Does anyone have any pictures? Or no someone good who has any of these for sale? Or is this an ebay thing?

Hi Bryant

 

 

I'll post pictures tonight of my one 2nd gen plunger fill Doric with #7 nib. I didn't get a chance last night. BTW-mine was a very flexy medium italic nib.

 

 

The LA show should be a good place to look. Isn't Syd going to the show? He should have some.

 

Of course, I'm looking for some Dorics at the show too.

[Bryant]

Thanks! Does anyone have any pictures? Or no someone good who has any of these for sale? Or is this an ebay thing?

Hi Bryant

 

 

I'll post pictures tonight of my one 2nd gen plunger fill Doric with #7 nib. I didn't get a chance last night. BTW-mine was a very flexy medium italic nib.

 

 

The LA show should be a good place to look. Isn't Syd going to the show? He should have some.

 

Of course, I'm looking for some Dorics at the show too.

Cheeky... Well, Im sure you will find what you are looking for first, as I will be there mostly for sale, but keep your eyes open for me ninja master But you dont want any silver colored trim right;)

[kushbaby]

Thanks! Does anyone have any pictures? Or no someone good who has any of these for sale? Or is this an ebay thing?

 

I will post some pics tonight after work. There have been a few of these on the Marketplace here lately, too - I missed a Kashmir (sp?) one with an adjustable nib that went pretty fast. There's another Kashmir with a regular nib being sold by Hank, and a Burma just sold as well (very quickly). Photos in all those posts. So if you have the chance, browse through the For Sale area here...

[AltecGreen]

Cheeky... Well, Im sure you will find what you are looking for first, as I will be there mostly for sale, but keep your eyes open for me ninja master But you dont want any silver colored trim right;)

 

 

Don't worry. I have your back. I will gladly look for pens for you. If we both wanted the same pen, I will gladly let you have it. The opportunity to see you pay money for pens instead of taking my money for pens is priceless. :roflmho:

 

 

Besides, the Wahl's are not on top on my list for the LA show. Depending on what I find, I maybe out of cash before I get to the Dorics.

 

Lisa didn't believe me when I told her I was looking for 'everything' at the LA pen show. So I started to tell her what pens I am thinking about . A minute later, she said, "you really are looking for everything!".

 

 

 

 

Edit: Here two pictures of my Doric.

 

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2711/4331589930_8c1b1e1920_b.jpg

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4061/4330854733_34ecba46c7_b.jpg

Edited February 5, 2010 by AltecGreen

[kushbaby]

Here are my Dorics - all three (one of the blacks is inked, and there's a writing sample), and then a closeup of the red.

 

Sorry for the weird lighting - not sure why I couldn't get it right... :hmm1:

 

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv327/kushbaby_pics/Dorics.jpg

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv327/kushbaby_pics/Doric-red.jpg

[Bryant]

Cheeky... Well, Im sure you will find what you are looking for first, as I will be there mostly for sale, but keep your eyes open for me ninja master But you dont want any silver colored trim right;)

 

 

Don't worry. I have your back. I will gladly look for pens for you. If we both wanted the same pen, I will gladly let you have it. The opportunity to see you pay money for pens instead of taking my money for pens is priceless. :roflmho:

 

 

Besides, the Wahl's are not on top on my list for the LA show. Depending on what I find, I maybe out of cash before I get to the Dorics.

 

Lisa didn't believe me when I told her I was looking for 'everything' at the LA pen show. So I started to tell her what pens I am thinking about . A minute later, she said, "you really are looking for everything!".

 

 

 

Yeah, Im not sure if my wife things of me as not "buying pens " But, if you kept your eyes open, that would sweet! I love that one you have there, thats pretty much exactly what Im looking for!!!

[Bryant]

Here are my Dorics - all three (one of the blacks is inked, and there's a writing sample), and then a closeup of the red.

 

Sorry for the weird lighting - not sure why I couldn't get it right... :hmm1:

 

 

 

 

Yummy, OK, I want a red one too then... Did they make that in an OS and nickel trim too?

B

[kushbaby]

Here are my Dorics - all three (one of the blacks is inked, and there's a writing sample), and then a closeup of the red.

 

Sorry for the weird lighting - not sure why I couldn't get it right... :hmm1:

 

 

 

 

Yummy, OK, I want a red one too then... Did they make that in an OS and nickel trim too?

B

 

Gorgeous, isn't it? It's different than the "Morocco", which is a deeper, marbled red (also VERY pretty). I've seen the greens in a "hatched" look as well as a marbled look - I don't know if "Kashmir" applies to both or whether I've just seen some folks mistakenly call them both that. There are, of course, different types of trim/capband related to whether they were early or late (I think three types) - I seem to remember mine being the late ones.

 

As far as whether it came in an OS with nickel trim, well, that's a Wahlnut question. I only know just enough to make me dangerous (i.e., perk up and say "Pretty!" when I see one). I've shown amazing willpower not to collect more, though I'm sure I'll crumble soon (I REALLY want an OS one in Kashmir :ph34r: ).

 

A tip for the adjustable nibs: the tab/adjustable part can break off, and can be hard to move and feel "stuck" (indeed, I think the reason that there are so few of the flat-type adjustable nibs out there is because they tended to break off). Ron Zorn told me that usually he doesn't even try to move them, but if I really wanted to move the tab (I did, as it was set at the stiffest setting and I wanted flexy), I should use a wooden chopstick to move it (carefully). Worked like a charm.

 

I really need to send this red one off to get restored... I'm such a procrastinator! :embarrassed_smile:

[RevAaron]

Yummy, OK, I want a red one too then... Did they make that in an OS and nickel trim too?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Syd, but:

 

Nope, not of the 2nd Gen plunger fill. The 2nd gen plunger fillers came in a standard and a junior size. Gorgeous pens, but too small for folks who think the MB 146 is a small pen. The larger size is a standard adult size, a little bigger than a Pelikan M400- I can take a comparison photo for you later, along with an oversize 1st Gen Doric and a couple of other benchmark pens.

 

Just noticed that Binder's profile page on the Doric doesn't have burgundy shell listed as a color- I've got one of those so surely they can't be terribly uncommon.

 

IMHO, the Gold Shell is the greatest color- really stunning, especially in bright sunlight!

 

Aaron

 

(edit: added last paragraph)

Edited February 5, 2010 by RevAaron

[ihimlen]

Here are some pics of my Dorics - at the moment I only have a standard sized set in Garnet Red Shell with gold trim and a sliver shell demi sized set with a soldier clip and platinic trim - both are lever fillers. I also have exactly the same jet black Doric but no longer with a no. 10 Adjustable nib - the pen I have now has a Gold Seal Personal Point (the Blue Shell/Sapphire Doric found a new home in May last year). Dorics are really sweet pens, and size-wise, the earlier models (like the pen in the last pics) appear to be larger and a bit more substantial than the later ones, though still the later OS (or even Standard) Doric isn't that tiny either... And I must say I, too, like the platinic trim Doric the most, the Burma Doric still being my Holy Grail pen...

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_4786.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_4787.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_6915.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_6937.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_6917.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_6632.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_6706.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_6702.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_6128.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_6125.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/100_6131.jpg

 

Regards

 

i.

Edited February 6, 2010 by ihimlen

[Bryant]

I love that blue one! Holy smokes!!! Did that come in OS? If so, I must have one!!!

 

Dang, all I need is another kind of pen to start collecting.

 

I really love your red one, so its not restored Kush?

Bry

[kushbaby]

I love that blue one! Holy smokes!!! Did that come in OS? If so, I must have one!!!

 

Dang, all I need is another kind of pen to start collecting.

 

I really love your red one, so its not restored Kush?

Bry

 

Alas, not yet. I am a terrible procrastinator about sending out pens to be fixed for some strange reason. But after pulling it out to photograph for this thread, I'll probably send it off next week...

 

(I want a blue one, too!!!!)

[MarcShiman]

There are two generations of the Dorics. The easy way to tell the difference is that the cap band extends past the edge of the cap lip on the 2nd generation (in Ihimlen's post, only the black is first generation). The first generation is larger generally (the 1st Gen senior (O/S) is larger than the 2nd Gen senior by a quarter of an inch, and the standard size 1st Gen is about 3/16 bigger than its second Gen cousin, although there are some variations depending on filler type). Personally I find the 2nd gen O/S to be reasonably large size pens (although not by today's standards - the biggest Doric is probably a bit narrower than a Visconti Opera). Each of the generations has its own different colors.

 

The first gen pens are more problematic. For one, there was real cracking issues at the cap lips on the first gen. As a result, you will find a lot of first gen pens with shortened caps. You also have to be extra careful about first gen colors and "crazing" (which is when the pen crytalizes at the ends and eventually self-destructs).The colors affected by this are the red (Morocco), dark green (Kashmir), and light green (Cathay). I don't think the (grey) Burma, which is the one that has the "nickel" plating is affected by crazing, although the one I have has a shortened cap. As a result, if you are hunting a minty Burma O/S first gen pen, expect to open the wallet. David Nishimura listed a mint one on his site for $1800 and now its gone. I think you can get one for substantially less, but no way less than $500.

 

The second gen pens are much more stable. They come in plunger and lever fills. The lever fills are generally more desirable because they are easier to service. I don't know the Wahl names for the colors, but there is a grey and blue shell colors (I just sold one a few weeks ago) with silver furniture. The other colors did NOT come with silver furniture. Expect to pay a lot less for a minty 2nd gen grey shell pen than a minty 1st gen Burma as they are easier to find.

 

As far as the nibs go, the adjustable nibs are super cool, with amazing flex, but don't ignore Wahl's normal signature flex nibs. Some of them are just outstanding. These nibs were interchangeable like modern Pelikans (in some cases - eventually they did away with this feature). I think if you can find a really nice Doric, don't walk away from it just because the nib isn't adjustable - the adjustable nib adds substantially to the price.

 

The Dorics are terrific pens, high quality, great nibs, and very sought after. I'm sure you'd find one at a show, just expect to pay to get a good one. I tend to buy mine on Ebay, and its been very hit or miss on them.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2010 by MarcShiman

[Bryant]

There are two generations of the Dorics. The easy way to tell the difference is that the cap band extends past the edge of the cap lip on the 2nd generation (in Ihimlen's post, only the black is first generation). The first generation is larger generally (the 1st Gen senior (O/S) is larger than the 2nd Gen senior by a quarter of an inch, and the standard size 1st Gen is about 3/16 bigger than its second Gen cousin, although there are some variations depending on filler type). Personally I find the 2nd gen O/S to be reasonably large size pens (although not by today's standards - the biggest Doric is probably a bit narrower than a Visconti Opera). Each of the generations has its own different colors.

 

The first gen pens are more problematic. For one, there was real cracking issues at the cap lips on the first gen. As a result, you will find a lot of first gen pens with shortened caps. You also have to be extra careful about first gen colors and "crazing" (which is when the pen crytalizes at the ends and eventually self-destructs).The colors affected by this are the red (Morocco), dark green (Kashmir), and light green (Cathay). I don't think the (grey) Burma, which is the one that has the "nickel" plating is affected by crazing, although the one I have has a shortened cap. As a result, if you are hunting a minty Burma O/S first gen pen, expect to open the wallet. David Nishimura listed a mint one on his site for $1800 and now its gone. I think you can get one for substantially less, but no way less than $500.

 

The second gen pens are much more stable. They come in plunger and lever fills. The lever fills are generally more desirable because they are easier to service. I don't know the Wahl names for the colors, but there is a grey and blue shell colors (I just sold one a few weeks ago) with silver furniture. The other colors did NOT come with silver furniture. Expect to pay a lot less for a minty 2nd gen grey shell pen than a minty 1st gen Burma as they are easier to find.

 

As far as the nibs go, the adjustable nibs are super cool, with amazing flex, but don't ignore Wahl's normal signature flex nibs. Some of them are just outstanding. These nibs were interchangeable like modern Pelikans (in some cases - eventually they did away with this feature). I think if you can find a really nice Doric, don't walk away from it just because the nib isn't adjustable - the adjustable nib adds substantially to the price.

 

The Dorics are terrific pens, high quality, great nibs, and very sought after. I'm sure you'd find one at a show, just expect to pay to get a good one. I tend to buy mine on Ebay, and its been very hit or miss on them.

 

 

 

Great! Thank you for your info... I have found a few, but I really want to see how they feel in person. Its so much easier to know if its a pen that will work for me, once I have seen it...

If I dont buy in LA, at leas then I know what Im looking for.

Bry

[MarcShiman]

Here's a comparison of size:

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4350243129_e8bc8d20a2_o.jpg

 

 

I'm going to use the phrase "Senior" and "Standard" size rather than "Oversize". "Oversize" seems to be used a little wildly these days, and I think there are only one or two pen brands that actually used it.

 

1) 1st Generation standard size

 

2 & 3) 2nd Generation senior size (sorry, I don't have any standard size 2nd gen with me), gold trim

 

4 & 5) 2nd Generation senior size white gold trim

 

6) 1st Generation senior size, Burma nickel trim

 

7) 1st Generation senior size, Jet gold trim

 

You can tell the difference between the filling systems by looking for whether there is a basketweave window on the pen. Pens 2 & 4 are plunger fills, the rest are levers.

 

Marc